Wednesday, October 16, 2013

audio conversation with Elaine Douglass

There is a dark side to the UFO abduction phenomenon that seems to get lost in the online podcasting scene. Elaine has been digging deep into this research, and her conclusions are at odds with many in the community. What she sees is a cautionary tale, one that challenges my own outlook on these complex issues.

Elaine Douglass has been a UFO investigator for over 25 years. She holds a masters degree from MIT in military policy. She was with MUFON for 25 years as state director of Washington DC and then Utah. In the 1990s she was an organizer for ORTK, Operation Right to Know which held street demonstrations in several cities protesting UFO secrecy.

Elaine has investigated a huge number of sighting reports, but early on she turned her attention to the abduction cases. In 2008 she founded JAR, The Journal of Abduction-Encounter Research, an email magazine which published 9 issues. In 2012 she was a guest on the Jesse Ventura show where he interviewed on her contention that Robert Bigelow is an intelligence asset operating in the UFO community.

  one click audio download HERE  
2 hours / 18 minutes

For more information Elaine's experiences with MUFON, and also what others have been through, I’m going to suggest a series of informative interviews from Jerry Pippin under the title MUFON UNDER SIEGE. You’ll hear her tell about some demoralizing experiences within that organization. Elaine also started an organization, The Committee to Reform MUFON in the hopes of lobbying for more openness within that organization.

Here's another very good interview with Elaine, from March of this year. Elaine can be reached at her email address: edouglass [the 'at' symbol]

Here is a link to the article by Elaine where she tells the story of a young man who was at a job interview with the CIA, and he was given a lie detector test by an alien. Linked HERE.

Excellent essay on researching UFO abduction posted HERE.


Text added:
Sad news, Elaine Douglass died on January 27th, 2014 after a long battle with cancer. Here is a report  of her passing. Linked HERE.

my blog stat counter from May 2014

I pay attention to the number 1234, and it shows up here (albeit with a zero) on the stat counter for this blog. No answers from this tiny clue. I am at the point that when I find these, I take note, try to document it on this site, and then see where it points. Alas, there isn't much to say, but those numbers remain.


gheron93 said...

Just listening now, but first impressions are how owl like Elaine looks in the photo.

Lucretia Heart said...

I really appreciate you admitting up front that confronting some of the darker issues with the UFO/abduction issue is not something you'd prefer to do. (You're hardly alone in that.) But you give a fair hearing to all sides I think because you know this about yourself.

However, I'm very glad you're allowing her voice to be heard, because Elaine's perspective is important. I'm not sure myself how much I can agree with her, but much of what she says rings true for me.

What she says about the loyalty issue is very uncomfortable to hear, but I see her point. I've had some interesting experiences being the ONE in a crowd who spoke out, asked questions, make a joke... and what disturbed me in those instances was how no one else would dare such a thing. I don't know why I did-- stubborn contrariness maybe. Again and again, when I was with a mass of abductees, if they were conscious, they were accommodating of the aliens. There is a pressure to conform to the alien agenda that few discuss, maybe because for most it is a moot point now...

I remember Budd saying that he'd found that it was more likely an abductee would falsely accuse a parent of sexual abuse, due to the memory suppression issues associated with abductions, rather than the other way around.

Mike Clelland! said...

I have had long talks with Elaine over the years. She is quite passionate, and she says it right up front. She'll declare: "I have a cynical outlook concerning the UFO abductions."

I listen to her very closely, and I see her points, and a lot of it rings true. My conclusion isn't as bleak as hers, but I just feel it's important that she have a voice in this grand debate. My site is probably heavily weighted toward the "love and light" as far as the people I've interviewed.

It would be a disservice to the my listeners if I ignored her (by not including her ideas) in this little forum of podcasts.

She is well informed to, she really knows her stuff.

Mike C

Lucretia Heart said...

Darn. I can see one comment won't do here.

"We can see through your eyes and hear through your ears..." DING DING DING! Oh hell yeah-- I even remember when they put some sort of mini-devices in my ears and eyes:

And I've had the experiences where they "upload" things I've read to their own data center or something somehow, from a distance.

I have some strong feelings against the aliens for what they do, but it doesn't compare to the fury I have at those of my own people who have fucked with me.
Stuff about milabs or reabs:

And I apologize for all the links, but its the only way to comment coherently about much of this.

When you were talking about the fear/heightened reality of being in the presence of a Grey while fully conscious--? I wanted to add to the idea. Beside their potentially vibrating at a different rate or level than we do, I think they also PROJECT their presence due to their high levels of telepathic powers. Hybrids, by contrast, especially if close to human-looking, often don't project as powerfully, if at all. If the guy was being interviewed by a late-stage hybrid, he may not have been overwhelmed by an altered reality and/or a telepathic projected presence.

Lucretia Heart said...

The first hour I was pretty much agreeing with everything, but then at the beginning of the second hour, Elaine was saying that abductees were instructed or encouraged (almost, except we're too trained to be passive) to overthrow the government-?? Um, that's one of the points where I don't see it.

The future scenarios I've been prepped for over and over again involve THEM doing that, or our government just unconditionally surrendering. We abductees might be trained to help the aliens at some point in this scenario, but it seems like at that point, the stuff happening to the Earth and so forth... the government isn't exactly too sturdy at that point anyway. I can't say anything for sure on this, but something doesn't quite line up for me here.

Your points after this issue came up were exactly what Gerick and I were thinking: B.S. planted by someone who has an agenda to confuse, etc.

For what its worth, I never thought that the world would be a paradise after the aliens came. I thought it would turn into a tightly regimented and controlled society with aliens at the top, because that's how things are run on their ships. THEY would say it was going to be wonderful, and I always thought, "Yeah, for YOU!"

I really want to know more about what's going on with the hybrids, and I have a hard time finding enough first-person accounts. I have such intense curiosity about that aspect of this phenomenon..!

Elaine's comment about us all being Cassandras was poignant for sure...

Great interview Mike! Thank you.

Mr.Owl said...

Fear or heightened sense of reality?
I've been nursing a theory for many years about this. I have heard it said that our minds/perceptions/brains govern how we experience our reality and universe. It would stand to reason that the others are similar but that their conscious awareness collides with, and most cases, overwhelms ours.

This may lead to the sense of ones ego, self or understanding of reality being totally annihilated, leading to fear or terror or both. I think some people may shut down or descend into terror. I can relate to both.

Indeed, I was listening to the interview and starting to write this when Mike said: "...As if their mere presense is incompatible with our present reality." I feel you nailed it here, although I don't really agree with the synthetic terror idea. I believe you when you say that you feel that's what happened to you. But I truly feel that the terror associated with encounter is absolutely real, and with good reason! I know I'm splitting hairs as everyone experiences life differently.

I'm not done with the interview yet, but views such at Elaine's dovetail with Dr. Turner's. It confirms a lot of my own suspicions and does not paint a pretty picture.

Thanks Mike!

Mike Clelland! said...

that guy "Drake" is a really weird thing. A guy claiming to be a UFO abductee and advocating the violent overthrow of the US government. Sheeesh.

THe weird thing was, he was (and is) totally boring. I feel like I am pretty smart, and I couldn't figure out what he was trying to say (or sell).

If you are going to herald a revolution, you kinda need to be quick with the talking points.

Weird, weird, WEIRD!

Anonymous said...

That was one great interview, Mike! Thankyou and Elaine Douglass! She certainly does not pull any punches!

It would be great to have a follow up interview to hear more about Elaine's investigations of the seemingly more pedestrian ufo sightings ( lights in the sky, ect.) and the potential of some witnesses unknowingly being abductees. I know it came up at the tail end of the interview, but it's a hunch some of us have had for awhile now.

Also, it would be fascinating to hear more of the connection between human disappearances and ufo sightings (I heard part of the George Noory interview with the investigative writer you & Elaine mentioned - who's name escapes me now - and the data compiled, if accurate is chilling!).

I do remember Elaine and her brief interview with Jesse - (re. talking about ufo investigative secrecies, buying of ufo files - if I'm remembering correctly) on the last season of Jesse Ventura's Conspiracy Theory (a show that can't seem to stay on the air or find a home channel).

~ Susan

tinyjunco said...

haven't listened to the whole shebang yet, but listening to the part about Drake, ET's vs. 'the government', etc. - i cannot recommend enough that people in this arena read Project Beta by Greg Bishop and Vallee's two books: Messengers of Deception & Revelations.

The covert world is wheels within wheels, within wheels. The ufo world is a vast playground for every rinky dink (and now Mike, you've just brought up M of D - thank you) quasi-governmental/corpo-intelligence group out there. And since ufo-types are all a buncha whackos (please forgive the stereotype) so who cares.

Also, my brother is a retired air force intelligence type (spy). There's a huge number of people running around with crackpot conspiracy theories about various plots in/around/against/etc. 'the government'. If they want to post it on the web, most people in the FBI or the secret service will check it out and if there's no basis in fact that they can determine, well, they've got actual jobs. At least that's what he tells me (looks around in shifty-eyed fashion ;)

btw, Buce Rux has spoken on Binnall of America about ET using abductees for sabotage. And as a Chuckchansi descended gal, i find Elaine's idea that no one wants to destroy an ecosystem in order to conquer it a bit rich. steph

tinyjunco said...

p.s. Lucretia, never apologize for posting links to your site!!! It's invaluable in so many, many ways (not least you're such a precise observer and always open about *how* you know what you know, it's a dream for anyone with an interest in this phenom beyond 'spooky stories').

Hi Brownie!!!

and Mike, i so appreciate your interview skills generally and here i find that your questions, your followup and your bringing of particular instances and examples to Ms. Douglass for her input has really been helpful in understanding her viewpoint. steph

Anonymous said...

Waving through the Ethernet to Steph! :-)

~ Susan

Charles Edward Frith said...

That CIA story pulled out of the draw after 13 years didn't pass my sniff test.

Steve Ray said...

Did Ms. Douglass do any control surveys of unusual experiences by non-light-in-the-sky-witnesses, like asking people at the library or 7-Eleven?

And did she find that study of people near Niagara she referred to?

tinyjunco said...


heehee, give little 'E' a big snorgle for he still scarfing toads? :)

Mike, i think you struck a great balance in this interview. Around 90% in, i found myself really agreeing with you as you almost asked the question leaping in my own mind - if the aliens are really all that, how in the world are you having this talk, publishing this podcast and blog?

i can't go along with the 'love and light crowd', at the same time i cannot believe the 'aliens are all powerful super evil' hoohah either. IMO, a lot of the "ooga-booga aliens as all knowing evil overlords" comes from info. and scenarios set up by the aliens themselves.

But as usual - i would strongly encourage everyone to look for themselves, judge for themselves, and always run statements back to their original sources. steph

Anonymous said...

Great interview. I thought you, her me, was on the page. I got lost on the second hour. I do not understand a thing she said about the government and its over throw. It seems to me they are getting what they want from our elected officials. Are they not feeding on our emotions?

Anonymous said...

Hi Steph! Oh yes, little E is still scarfing the tiny toads as well as tadpoles in the shallow brooks near our home (a taste for amphibians). ;-)

Back on topic, I agree with the comments here about the CIA interview -- It's awfully hard to believe that the man who reported this was actually in close proximity to an 'alien'. From what we know to be near an alien is excruciating, maddening almost... The fear and discomfort, ect.

But, I see the conservation between Elaine and Mike as two people very interested and well-versed in the topic and throwing out lots of food for thought. Sort of like two like-minded people getting together over coffee and snacks and freely talking -- not all of the conversation is equal, but most of it is fascinating and worthwhile to consider.

~ Susan

Anonymous said...

Really great interview! I feel like I just placed a few more pieces in this puzzle.

Thanks Mike.

Lucretia Heart said...

Hey Susan/Brownie! Hey Steph! *waves*

Susan, my own experiences with different types of aliens may lend insight regarding a guy possibly being interviewed by a hybrid. The late stage (or MOSTLY human-looking) ones are certainly off-putting and VERY freaky, but they don't project their presence at near the power of a grey or early-stage hybrid. Some of the late stage ones look like Aimee Mann (look up the name on Google images) for example. When you make eye contact, you can tell if they're part alien or not-- but you can feel a grey around if you can't see them.

So I don't know... it may well be a bogus account, but I wouldn't say it is just because the guy was reportedly able to withstand being around a late-stage hybrid.

Anonymous said...

Hi Lucretia,

I had assumed Elaine relayed the witness' experience of the CIA woman as morphing into an alien. So, I was thinking the most common-a grey alien (and the shock, horror & upset that entails...especially without the apparent control system of an altered state).

I just binged Aimee Mann and she most certainly looks human and non-threatening.

Thanks for the clarification, Lucretia!

~ Susan

chiron1111 said...

Elaine seems a bit impaired, cognitively, in this interview.

Lucretia Heart said...

OH! Susan, I didn't know it was a morph thing! That does change it up a bit. I would assume he was under mental control of some sort then... because yeah, I can't imagine anyone not losing their mind with fear otherwise.

Aimee Mann's looks (I love her music) certainly freak me out. Also Maria Cross of Desperate Housewives (played Bree.) They look like the latest stage hybrids I've seen. Totally could pass as human, but you might notice some slightly odd features with tilted eyes, big foreheads, extra slender, etc.

Mike Clelland! said...

No morphing in the CIA job interview! Not that I recall anyway. Lemme search out that issue of JAR and maybe I'll post it here...

Mike C

Red Pill Junkie said...

It was said during the interview that the childhood of abductees are extremely difficult. I'd posit the same could be said of ANY child with an above-average intelligence & a high level of sensitivity. When I was a kid I was a top-A student with problems of obesity --mine was NOT a happy childhood.

And about this idea to raise up & overthrow governments, whereas I do not believe in the efficacy of armed revolutions, I also think it's the responsibility of any conscious citizen to raise its voice & do what it can to effect a change in our system of governance.

I hardly think that approach makes me a traitor to the human race ;)

Yes, the UFO phenomenon is an agent of instability. But instability is needed sometimes in order to combat stagnation, which is far worse.

Anonymous said...

^ The difficulty might be the horror of consciously recalled memories of aliens floating through walls and extracting the child. It's not really the same as an unhappy pudgy, sensitive A student who does not live the horrors of the human abduction syndrome (as Linda Moulton Howe and others term it).

~ Susan

Red Pill Junkie said...

But aren't those memories usually recalled during adulthood? Maybe the child abductee intuits there's something extremely weird happening to him, and that exerts some level of anxiety.

But anxiety is IMO pretty much the bread & butter of growing nerds ;)

Mike Clelland! said...

As far as abductees having herd childhoods - I think that Elaine was implying something pretty dark, like being sexually abused at a young age. Something akin to torture.

Mike Clelland! said...

I just added the articles referenced in this interview.

During the audio conversation with Eliane Douglass, we spoke at length about one very interesting case. It told the story of a young man going to the CIA for a job interview, he claims he was given a lie detector test by an alien. The article written by Elaine and published in two parts in Journal of Abduction Research (JAR) magazine.

A lot of listeners were eager to read this two-part article, they said as much in the comments below the interview posting.

Both issues are linked here:

The title of the article is: Don’t apply for a job at the CIA—you might be interviewed by an alien

Anonymous said...

Elaine Douglass passed away from cancer. I just read this a.m.(1/28/14) on my Facebook feed, from Rosemary Ellen Guiley. May Elaine R.I.P.

~ Susan

Red Pill Junkie said...

Descanse en Paz.