Wednesday, April 24, 2013

interview with Budd Hopkins from 2007

Budd Hopkins from raw documentary footage

I was involved in a documentary on UFO abductions back in 2007. The project was never completed but we came away with some really interesting footage. What I'm sharing here is the audio from a video interview with Budd Hopkins in his New York City home. You can hear the street noise in the background, a sound I truly love.

one click audio download HERE

You can also hear the nervousness in my voice as I speak with Budd. He was asking me some emotional questions and at the time I was wrapped so tight that I didn't give him very clear answers. In this audio I edit in the answers I didn't give then.

It was tense listening to the person I was then, and I was obviously stressed out as I added new audio seven years later. I swear in frustration within the first few seconds of this podcast. I should probably edit that out, but it really seems to accurately capture my state of mind.

This was a hard thing for me to create. Partially my own emotions are still so raw, but more that it just feels sad that Budd is gone. I feel absolutely blessed that I had the chance to spend time with this thoughtful and kind man.

During the conversation I reference some stuff that Budd and I had covered earlier in the day. Unless you've really immersed yourself in this blog you might not be able to follow what we are talking about. Rather than edit in verbal explanations I'm just putting links to the relevant posts below.
~ Thoughts on a documentary on hold - and audio explanation of the genesis and eventual fizzling of the documentary project.
~ View from my window - Seeing five gray aliens out a window in 1993.
~ Star Trek imagery - A spooky visual

~ Scar on the inside of my nose - Thoughts on my left nostril.


gheron said...

Have you heard the recent interview of the MacGregors by Anne Streiber ?

She has some interesting (not in a good way) things to say about Bud Hopkins near the start of the interview.

Anonymous said...

Hey, Mike!

Coming out of 'lurkdom' to thank you for posting this in particular, and for *all* you offer/do via this blog. After listening to this presentation, as I was preparing for dinner, two barred owls here started calling to one another! "Who cooks for you?" Indeed.


Mike Clelland! said...

Reply to Fred:

Okay, about those two owls...

Have you heard any owls before in that same spot? I am genuinely curious.

please lemme know,
Mike C

Anonymous said...


Re: the owls, yep.


Anonymous said...

gheron, I assume this is what you're referring to. -

Though I can find some criticism of Budd Hopkins, Anne Streiber's defammatory charges are very serious and I'd wonder how she actually knows this. To state this after Hopkins has died and can't, in any manner, defend himself is a window into Anne Streiber's mind and character, imo.

Years back Anne Streiber wrote a couple of books - one of them a novel about a middleaged woman who was alienated (no pun intended) and ignored by society but became a detective. Also, she's written in articles on unknowncountry website and stated in interviews that women,beginning in middle-age, become invisible to men because they're beyond their reproductive years.

Anne has also discussed getting in legal trouble for kicking a man who cut in front of her at a deli (or some store) in NYC. She wasn't clear if she was arrested or a criminal complaint filed, but the jest of it was she got out of the problem eventually with an attorney's help. Anne said she was mad that the guy didn't acknowledge her presence (this was why, she thought, he cut in front of her) so she kicked him. Well, that's unstable behavior, imo. Anne also changes up her stories and anecdotes, over the years, in interviews. She seems to play with the truth loosely.

So, my point is, I'd take Anne Streiber's viscious gossip about a dead man with a heavy grain of salt considering her history. Also, quite telling, the link above provides a positive, respectful quote from her husband Whitely about the late Budd Hopkins. Streiber and Hopkins had their falling out years earlier (books coming out at the same time, ect.) but seemed to have ironed out their differences over the years.

~ Susan

Anonymous said...

I'd often wondered where the vicious rumors about Budd came from. Now I (internet maybe) know. Gotta love the UFO community at times. Hmmmm.

Mr.Owl said...

I'm glad you mentioned Anne's interview (Mike's was better by far and had his usual kind and lighthearted tone). I was taken aback, to put it mildly, by her comments. That he had, um, whoopee, with some of these women, well, seems unlikely as Mr.Hopkins was on in his years even back then.

I've heard all matter of unflattering things said of this man. When Jeff Ritzmann and Jeremy Vaeni had Budd on their show, Vaeni bragged later how 'he assassinated' Budd on his show. Budd died shortly after. These guys did not agree with his use of hypnotic regression.

Although, I also don't agree with the use of hypnosis in all cases, it CAN be a useful tool as long as ones consciousness isn't too tainted by popular culture, literature, etc. I choose to remember Budd, despite his faults, which we all have, as a man
who didn't have to do the work he did.
I believe he genuinely wanted to help people in a field of study with no precedents or established procedures. He was a pioneer. He forged a way ahead for others to follow, perfect it was not. He was a damn good artist too!

tinyjunco said...

"My friend just called to tell me that the moon is rising...."

what a beautiful friend :) steph

"timeEn altar" - gotcha words

Red Pill Junkie said...

I just can't believe that someone as physically fit as you, Mike, is nonetheless not comfortable with your own body!

Now *me* on the other hand, who have always been fighting with my obesity problems...

PS: Re. the Communion art cover, even Strieber acknowledged in the book that it was a bit off, and that 'her' head is larger than what the painting suggests.

gheron said...

@brownie. Yep that's the comment I was referring to. I haven't read any of Bud Hopkin's books and I didn't know him.

I want to make it very clear that I didn't post about it to say "look what Bud Hopkin's was like", but instead to say look here is someone making a completely unsubstantiated allegation about Bud Hopkins.

If she has serious concerns then she should marshal her evidence and present it. Not make a throw away gossipy comment in an online interview.

For the record I am highly skeptical about the use of hypnosis in abduction "research" and am not convinced that it has genuinely advanced our understanding. I also feel it is quite likely that some of the research done has potentially breached moral and ethical boundaries, even if it was well intentioned. . However, I don't think you should defame a dead man quite so casually.

Anonymous said...

gheron, I think hypnosis to retrieve memories during 'missing time' should be done only if the client insists and even then, should be considered as memories retrieved under hypnosis (separating them from conscious recall).

Sprinkle, Fowler, Hopkins, Jacobs, Mack and lots more investigators have used hypnosis. Preceeding the men listed above was psychiatrist Dr. Benjamin Simon, who hypnotized the Hills (the sexual aspect of the close encounter was revealed way back then, even though Simon stated he did not believe the Hills were abducted by a ufo...I wouldn't expect him to say he believed the Hills - he would have lost his career & prestige).

I read the commentary section under Anne Streiber's interview with the MacGregors, on unknowncountry dot com. I was very disappointed to see Whitley Streiber completely contradict his own glowing praise of Budd Hopkins (when Hopkins passed on). Now Streiber is claiming Hopkins carried on a vendetta of over 20 years against him. Streiber completely defends what his wife Anne said in the interview, even though there are some commentators who are shocked by her behavior.

~ Susan

Trish said...

I was genuinely shocked by what Anne said. We met Hopkins years ago. I felt he was a genuinely nice guy.

Trish and Rob MacGregor said...

I just found out from Bill Birnes that Anne Strieber is hospitalized and his just undergone brain surgery- her second such operation. Now I'm wondering if her off-note comments about Budd were related somehow to her condition. Rob

Anonymous said...

Anne Streiber seems quite lucid in her latest blog entry, dated 4/28. She wrote if from the hospital where she'll be operated on in a few days.

~ Susan

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cynthia said...

Echos of your interview continue to reverberate in my mind. Can't help but think that Experiencers` depression, PTSD, and what seems like DID, and it's various types, may actually be slightly different for non Experiencers, (Abductees, or whatever label best fits.) So just as many abductees go through life feeling different than others, (as well as having to deal with unique and sometimes traumatic abduction situations), so should the descriptions and classifications of metal illnesses, as well as specific treatments.
It would be great if some professionals in the UFO field, with psychology backgrounds, could write a new guide of psychological disorders that specifically apply to Abductees. One issue is, we are often going to"normal" doctors to treat us, (or no doc at all for fear) but their diagnoses do not really apply, so, consequently, neither do the treatments. There must be other diagnoses and treatment for us, because we are different, going through experiences others aren't, (and sometimes non Experiencers do not want to begin to know about IT.)
There has to be more ways we can help each other.
I'm not sure this post makes clear sense. I guess i feel a sense of urgency, as we need to use the resources we have, Leo Sprinkle, Barbara Lamb, etc, while they are still active in the movement. Who are the up and comers, who do what they do ? Are the UFO/ET professionals training new people in this field? Ok, this is a tangent, yet a genuine concern... Thank Goddess for you, Mike, your phenomenal accounts, interviews, adventures, and courage to share so much, all make my personal journey more clear, enlightened, interesting, and even sweet.
Peace and love, cyn

Anonymous said...

Cynthia wrote: "It would be great if some professionals in the UFO field, with psychology backgrounds, could write a new guide of psychological disorders that specifically apply to Abductees." - - -

Hi Cynthia, I think this might be dangerous for some of us.
You may get yourself doped up on anti-psychotic meds by psychiatrists who think you're hallucinating. It depends much on who you're treated by.

Two examples - One is me. When I was divorcing I had problems with my husband stalking/chasing me at the strangest places. Imagine going to visit your father's grave to tidy up the flowers and have your soon-to-be-ex drive up, jump out of the car and start chasing you around the cemetery. It would be funny if not for the danger of him. And that was one of many stalking incidents.

To deal with all that, I went to a psychiatrist and a therapist (they worked together) for about 8 months, until I was told I didn't need to anymore. I was prescribed Prozac (antidepressant). At one point I brought up my experiences (ufo close encounters, memories of mantid 'aliens'/grey 'aliens'). The psychiatrist listened intently and then shared with me her aunt's close encounter with a ufo that shot down over her car while she was driving home late at night and traumatized her. So, my psychiatrist believed me and didn't write a 'hardcore' prescription. But, I think most in the profession wouldn't be so understanding.

Another example (which can show how bad this can go). I knew someone years ago, online. This woman carefully documented her close encounters as well as poltergeist activities - including photos and videos. She worked fulltime and kept a clean house/yard, was divorced with adult children out of the house. She was fully functional but scared over what was happening to her. She finally shared all this with her internist who referred her to a psychiatrist who then doped her up on two anti-psychotics so she could "sleep". I remember her falling away from the private online support group we were both in as she was exhausted once she took the pills and went straight to bed. The last communication she gave was that terrible things were still happening but the meds made it a blur and she just didn't care anymore.

~ Susan

Mike Clelland! said...

read this:

The drama of seeking help...

Anonymous said...

Mike, Oh yeah! Thanks for linking to that! I think what you experienced with that therapist is likely what most other 'experiencers' would encounter in the mental health field. The ignorance and bias is discouraging.

~ Susan

Culture Industry said...

I listened to a couple of your podcast today and I'm pretty sure this is the one where you cut in mentioning Joseph Campbell? Anyway I had just finished writing for the morning and I listen to your podcasts while I'm writing and I stopped for the day and began doing research on answering three questions; one a way to help explain to my niece beyond my personal experience why she should not be concerned with Veganism especially at 9 yrs old, two the importance of caves in ancient man, and surprisingly I found all the answers in one place even the final answer in my long search for why the cow was so sacred to our ancestors not even expecting to ever find that out. This is a link to the web page I found and was reading before you even said the name Joseph Campbell and when you did I was struck deeply by the synchronicity realizing I was in the middle of reading his thoughts and having my questions answered while hearing you mentioning him by name.

Culture Industry said...

What I took from this as I said was an answer to actually 4 questions the importance of caves not even expecting to find the ones containing cow/bull art in right of passage, how to explain to my niece why veganism isn't an answer, why the cow was so sacred to ancient peoples, and also what a shaman is to me personally. My conclusion is that the relationship and worship and participation in hunting evolved our species to have morality and respect which are the highest functions in spirituality. The reason I do not like veganism nor any form of protest through avoidance is because without experiencing things firsthand you cannot enact change. People in our societies today have been disconnected from everything and continue to grow distant by avoiding reality and ignoring the one truth I have always know that we have been given two hands so that we can make the world a better place. Religion has corrupted the symbols and shifted the worship of the animals into the vein worship of ourselves and this reflects everything I see wrong with our world today. Vegans are wrong because they do not help animals by not participating and they do not learn by copping out, and they are doing now to plants that are living feeling things what humans have done to everything they have exploited by lying to themselves to justify and destroy without guilt by labelling things as less than us. Guilt is the reason we once respected this Earth and all the living things upon it, guilt is the reason we became humane and respectful toward other species, guilt is why we created rituals so that we could atone for and deal with harsh realities. Our guilt evolved us to have empathy and to treat the animals with honor. Our disconnection with this guilt has resulted in our de-evolution and now we no longer possess the same care for our environment because we never experience it and through fear avoid the great lessons learned from being directly involved. This has resulted in wide spread ignorance and the false belief that not participating is the same thing as doing something and that standing by and choosing not to learn or grow by taking action in exchange for third person ignorant opinions that offer no perspective and result in the continuance of decline.

Culture Industry said...

We have been indoctrinated to think falsely that through our inaction we can side step the consequences. When I was a young teen I learned the hard way when my adult cousin decided to commit armed robbery with me in the car; that even though I did not participate, and even though I did not hold a gun at someone, but that just by standing by and doing nothing to stop him made me just as guilty. I still was hand cuffed and processed, I still was jailed and treated like a violent criminal, I saw that just not participating wasn't enough to justify innocence and that I should have used my influence to act rather than sit in protest and I could have stopped my cousin and kept myself from having my future ruined; but I falsely believed as many people do that not committing the crime myself was enough and that saving myself was all that mattered. You can not escape from what you know is happening around you, you cannot ignore problems and just expect others to fix them or expect to not suffer the effects. In the case of protecting other species if you want the animals to be treated right you can not do it by standing in the parking lot outside the arena sitting with a sign like I have witnessed so many do nothingers attempt. things that exist will not go away you have to join the circus and understand how it functions and use your own abilities and influence if you want to make the world a better place for the animals you care for. Watching a propaganda video of animal abuse isn't good enough you need to experience things firsthand or else you are nothing more than a coward too frightened to enter the cave and will never gain other peoples respect or a position to become a voice of influence to win over peoples hearts especially if you have done nothing more than drop out. Think of your favorite person of public influence if they called for a protest to shift change think of how many people would follow. Now imagine outside on the corner a nobody with a sign who has never earned peoples trust with no insight and no experience trying to create influence by doing nothing and asking others to join them in staying a safe distance from the arena and now you know why nothing ever changes and the world seems to continue to decline in morality because nobody wants to help save anybody but themselves and take the easy ways out because fighting with posterity and partaking in actions that bring about real change take too much effort and too much respecting of others; and the experience needed to put things in a perspective that bridges social gaps is too much to ask from people who get can skip on it for generalized opinions easily acquired in seconds at home from media devices and books in safety and security neither of which grant anybody growth in character or teach deep respect and values for real things in the real world. What a shaman is to me is someone who heals society by reconnecting it to reality through experience. As Joseph articulates "To perform rituals is to live the myth".