Wednesday, August 28, 2013

UFO Jounalist Roger Marsh ignores abduction reports


I spoke directly with Roger Marsh on the phone. We talked today, and all is fine. There is no stress at all between myself and Roger. I can say that the overall weirdness just got even weirder! More soon, this story continues...
Mike C
Aug 30th / 9:05 Mountain Time 

(initial posting Aug 28th 9:19 PM)

Roger Marsh has multiple titles as a UFO investigator and journalist. For MUFON, he’s noted as a field investigator, Director of Communications and editor of the MUFON Journal. He’s also a contributor for both the UFO Examiner and the Huffington Post.

Marsh was interviewed on a video podcast series called Topic UFO a little over a year ago. During that interview he shared a fascinating close up UFO sighting from his youth that obviously had a big impact on the direction of his life.

In the beginning of the interview, he made it quite clear that he was a seasoned reporter, "I'm qualified, I could write for the New York Times. I'm at that level as a writer."

Over the last few years I’ve read a few interesting reports penned by Marsh, but what struck me during the podcast was his curious dismissal of the abduction phenomenon.

At one point in the interview he stated:
They have their vehicles, they don't really care about us, you know, unless you want to go down the alien abduction route, that's another fair area to be in.   
Well, I for one have gone down the alien abduction route. He says that's fair, but at the same time he seems to want to ignore the implications. From my ongoing research, as well as my direct experience, I can say with some conviction that they are profoundly interested and deeply involved with us. Saying they don't really care about us requires dismissing one entire aspect of the phenomenon.

He was asked by the host: “If these UFOs are real... what do you thing they are trying to do here, or what do they want? What are your personal feelings?”
Okay, if it's my personal feelings, there may be one section of the listening audience that maybe follow alien abductions, I kind of have to push that aside. It doesn't appear to me that they are really that interested in humans. They seem to be just kind of doing their own thing... 

But of course if I said that they just sort of do their own thing and leave us alone then my next fifty emails are going to be from people who are very strong with the alien abduction and that's a whole other thing, and we could just talk for hours on that some night. I have my own opinion, and we could do a whole other show just on that...
Then he goes on to say that he spent some time with Dr. John Mack, and he mentions Budd Hopkins. it seems like he respected both of them as far as being dedicated folks, but he didn't say much.
But, a whole different world out there with that [alien abduction subject], you know, people think they are mining us for something, maybe they are creating another race or something.
Marsh spent part of this interview describing how some reporters will ignore or belittle the subject of UFOs. It seemed odd that he would then follow that up by belittling the subject of abductions.

I need to repeat one thing he said, he brings up abductions and then says: I kind of have to push that aside. So, this self proclaimed New York Times caliber reporter says he needs to push aside evidence that doesn't fit his personal feelings.

My sense is that we have come to a point where it is okay for a UFO organization like MUFON to talk publicly about lights in the sky, but it’s probably safer to just ignore all those people who tell of interaction with the UFO occupants. I wonder if Marsh would have gotten the position as Director of Communications at MUFON if, during his job interview, he said he was really eager to get the word out about the whole abduction thing.

I did a quick google search where I plugged in Roger Marsh and abduction; this yielded surprisingly few hits. When I read through the short list there are a few about peripheral abduction related items. Like an artist doing a comic book about the Herbert Schirmer case from 1967 and another about a stage play dramatizing a 1975 case where three women were abducted in Kentucky. He also wrote a 207 word article about the 1976 Allagash case. Not much, and all three cases are from over 35 years ago.

I also found about 20 or so reports by Marsh with the term missing time in the text. This seems surprisingly low given that he’s been posting a regular column about UFO reports for over four years now. Also, when a witness tells of missing time, this (to me) implies possible abduction, but there was no follow up information in these articles that asked any deeper questions about the missing time events.

Please know, I only did a cursory search of his on-line material, there may be examples detailing abduction reports that I could have easily missed.

Okay, here’s my beef... 
The abduction aspect is being marginalized within the UFO research community. This is an absolute truism, and both Roger Marsh and MUFON are towing that line. They seem to be wishing this aspect of the phenomenon would just go away. Wouldn’t it be so much better if it was all just lights in the sky?

Please know, I've connected with a lot of very real people with heart-wrenching stories of UFO abductions, I consider many of them to be among my dearest my friends. I don’t have any good answer to what is at the source of these sometimes deeply traumatizing experiences, but ignoring them, to me, is perfectly irresponsible.


Regan Lee said...

Oh I get so frustrated with those that call themselves UFO researchers and ignore the parts they find irksome. (same goes for Bigfoot research.) On cannot possibly be honest, let alone hope to get anywhere, by rejecting, trivializing and ignoring parts of the UFO phenomenon. Not surprised this is MUFON connected.

Red Pill Junkie said...

Typical of the paranormal field: the UFO guy mocks the Bigfoot guy, and the Bigfoot guy mocks the ghost-hunting guy.

And why? Because all of them want the same thing, which is what they'll never have: Respectability by the mainstream.

This Marsh dude thinks he's NYT caliber --as if that meant something in this day & age, when most big news media shy away from breaking the really big stories, for fear of the consequences (Greenwald anyone?)-- so he thinks he needs to attain the same level of agnosticism embraced by the likes of Leslie Kean; and even though I sympathize with her, and her efforts to collect testimonies from retired military officers, there's no denying that trying to address UFOs as just air-bound manifestations is beyond naive --it's cowardly.

I admit it: I can't still make my own mind with re. to the abduction phenomenon. But to think that the UFO phenomenon is not really that interested in us humans is to be myopic about what the piling evidence gathered by organizations like MUFON suggests. Whatever it is *they* are doing, it's got EVERYTHING to do with us.

Maybe it is WE who should ignore organizations like MUFON. They are a dying breed anyway --Robert Bigelow made sure to give them the killing blow.

Robbie Graham said...

Nice post. I share your beef, Mike. To speak of the abduction phenomenon in such dismissive terms and to state that UFOs exhibit no particular interest in humanity is beyond absurd.

RPJ, I'm with you on Leslie Kean. "Air-bound manifestations" :D

Cynthia said...

This seems familiar; maybe because this is what people have been telling me a about mufon for it really just a government organization that collects data for decades and never releases its data to the public?
Idk...but that's what i hear

Anonymous said...

Does, "I kind of have to push that aside." mean, "I kind of have to [because I've been advised to] push that aside."?

Mike Clelland! said...

About Alien Abductions, Marsh said:

"...that's a whole other thing, and we could just talk for hours on that some night. I have my own opinion, and we could do a whole other show just on that."

Actually, I am curious what he would say about alien abduction, if given a few hours.

He says he's an investigator, I wonder if he's ever had a witness break down in tears because they were so emotionally freaked out.

Suzanne said...

I've been "dismissed" by the dir. of MUFON LA, as all he really cared about was the disk I saw in Studio City, California in 2011. The SECOND I suggested that they should have a meeting solely devoted to abductee testimonials, he literally SCOFFED at me and walked away!

presidentialufo said...


You are quite right about the importance of the abduction encounters.

We have gone no where on the UFO front after 66 years of research. In fact in 1947 the media would seriously question what was going on. Now they ignore it so we are actually farther behind.

It is not until we talk to the people who have been in the UFOs or who have interacted with the pilots of UFOs that we will advance.

The sighting experience of counting big ones, small ones, fast ones, slow ones, silver ones, black ones, round ones, and cigar shaped ones is a complete waste of time.

It is equivalent to flying in a plane at 40,000 feet and believing that we can learn anything about small objects on the round that seem to be moving.

Tom Sanger said...

Thanks Mike for posting this on my FB Timeline. Anyone who dismisses the abduction phenomenon (meaning taken against one's will instead of willing contact) has either not looked into it or has and either has a personal agenda against it or more likely is a disinformation agent. There is a ton of evidence that the abductions have taken place and from my own experience through regression it seems very, very real.

Zen Benefiel said...

Nice to see you are making the rounds to get people engaged in the conversation, Mike.

I think we need to give fair credit to MUFON and the job Roger took for them. MUFON has always been into the sighting and/or 'hard' evidence of the phenomena. We cannot expect them to violate their bylaws, so to speak.

However, there really is no legitimate organization that addresses the abduction and/or contactee perspective. There are definitely some stones to turn for sure.

I've notice over the last few years that things are changing drastically in the field. For instance, Whitley is now saying there is something more to the 'consciousness' involved that we need to consider and Travis is now admitting it is possible that the guys actually saved his life after a 'mishap' of being a human lightning rod.

I've heard of some of the gals that were used as incubators now saying that in spite of the 'scary' side of things there was never any real physical harm done. Of course being paralyzed and utilized isn't the ideal situation, but maybe there isn't a real malevolent intent at all.

Then there are those who've been engaged for most of their lives as vehicles of new thought and or transceivers for information to be shared in the 'thoughtmosphere' of humanity. We're just now discovering that consciousness spans non-linear and non-local experiences as well. What might we find out as we continue to explore the possibilities of our own evolution?

Folks like Roger and other reporters or researchers aren't really qualified to address the items I've mentioned above and few of those who do have the ongoing experiences have been able to have a conversation of any detail or length. I would suggest that we find some folks willing to create a gathering for such to occur.

Thanks again for reaching out.


Mike Clelland! said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mike Clelland! said...

Reply to Zen:

I get what you are saying, and you listed a lot of fascinating and relevant points.

I think the role of a good reporter is to dig deep.

Marsh is, for the most part, just logging sighting reports lifted from the MUFON case files. These kinds of reports have been on-going, with some slight variation, for over 65 years and nothing much has come of it.

I encourage him to dig deeper into the phenomenon and report that. You just gave him a tidy list of stories to start on.

peace to you!
Mike C

duxndogs said...

while i will be the first to admit that i tend to give people the benefit of the doubt,,, maybe marsh's comment is a bit more nuanced than what it originally appears. maybe meaning that what they are doing is what they are doing, no matter how we feel or how it affects earthly humanity. which is how the phenomenon appears to me, that individual's emotions, etc are of no consequence to the "alien" mind. this seems to be a goal oriented phenomenon and we are a means to that end.

Zen Benefiel said...

Thanks, Mike. I miss our face-to-face conversations. Seemed to be having one as I awoke this morning that was probably just in my head.

A response to duxndogs, though... MUFON's position is impersonal. Marsh is just staying in line. It's what he's paid to do, even though he may have some opinions.

Contrary to popular opinion, it's been my experience that they [ETs] are sensitive to human emotion. There have been several occasions where attempts to communicate have been postponed due to emotional conditions. I'll also admit that in other cases there has been little credence given to emotions. The latter seems to have more to do with self-limiting and/or fear-based positions.

The development of a planetary society that is in tune with the natural laws, patterns and rhythms is much more important to the ETs than is being given credit. It is far more attractive to engage the drama and trauma (real or imagined) to get attention in the marketplace. The more distracted folks are, the less of a threat they are to those who don't have their best interests at heart or in mind. That would be the surreptitious humans who are afraid of losing their control and fortunes.

What I find interesting is that even after writing several books and speaking out about personal experiences I've had since childhood, replete with breadcrumbs and hints of how to engage our natural awareness and communication with consciousness beyond our current fear-based mentality, nobody seems to be interested. Even though I'm solid in my awareness, as well as past professional endeavors, I feel like I'm on the never-ending beginning slope of the proverbial product curve.

Maybe it's appropriate to share a link to Zendor the Contrarian.

Mike Clelland! said...

Zen, Roger Marsh should interview YOU!

MUFONs position does not seem persona to me. They don't totally discount abductions (or whatever term you want to use), but they sure act like they wish it would just go away so they wouldn't have to be involved with anything so outside the boundaries of nuts & bolts.

I have had my own experiences that I feel strongly fit into the abduction category.

So, MUFON as an institution just wishes I would go away. I know that I'm being dramatic saying that, but it sure feels that way to me.

If I had seen a little dot in the sky, they would be at my door with a clip board eager to ask me questions. None of those questions would be about consciousness or heightened sense of reality.

(I heart Zen)

Mike C!

Anonymous said...

Abductions are a waste of time taking a brain phenomenon as something external and turning it into an inbred hell hole of vampiric feeding exploited by hypnotic regression.

Mike Clelland! said...

Reply to Anonymous (above):

Given your statement, you may find this site a "waste of time" and very much a "hell hole" because the overall focus has been examining the abduction phenomenon. Sorry, I can't meet your needs as a reader.

Mike C

Jeff Davis said...

Hi Mike,
Ever read the title Roger's report? I would suggest that if you are not alreday familiar with it. Abductions and UFOs and NOT the same. We don't even know if they are in ANYWAY related. If you have come to find a form of irrefutable proof, or even the slightest bit of truly objective evidence to support as much, I'd love to hear and know about it. While you're at it, and the matter is libel at this point due to your written word, could you please quote me where Roger specifically states that he "ignors" abductions? It seems to me, that possibly, it's you that is dealing in implication, and not so much Roger. I would suggest a little more tact when brandishing a name as valuable to the real world of UFO considerations as is the work of one Roger Marsh. Thanks, Jeff

Zen Benefiel said...

I'd love to be interviewed, Mike. I had a television show back in the 90s and have had a few interviews about my book lately. I'm pretty comfortable sharing experiences. Here's a clip from my introduction on an ET/UFO panel from last year.

Y'all can do the mud slingin' elsewhere, please. Folks that get pushed beyond the limits of their experience are so predictable. Just chill... :)

Here's a flash: Non-linear and non-local experiences are not some chemical misfire in the brain. I'd think we'd be beyond all that nonsense with all the research that has been done on near-death experiences. It isn't that much of a stretch to consider other realms of consciousness that have life in/on them. If you've had an experience of either, you know that to be true. If you haven't, then it is a challenge to accept unless you've had some training in some mental discipline that promotes altered states of mind.

The thing about the Ufology crowd is that they look for the pragmatic - the photos or evidence of craft that is observable. Experience is left out of the picture because it has been largely subjective. MUFON doesn't get into the subjective at all. That isn't their job. We cannot expect Roger and others to step over that line.

What we can do is examine the reports of those who claim to have had contact and compare the abduction scenarios with them. We have some concerns as to whether the abductions are MIC experiments with memory implants or the real deal. Contact scenarios don't seem to have any implications of MIC involvement. So we have some things to compare and contrast that could turn out to be very useful.

There are plenty of hypnotherapists that have helped folks recall, but I think even those reports are up for scrutiny. There are enough who remember without any help as they remain conscious and over time have learned how to mentally manage the non-linear and non-local scenarios. Like anything, with practice one can learn how to manage the weird stuff over time.

Jeff Davis said...

"Here's a flash: Non-linear and non-local experiences are not some chemical misfire in the brain. I'd think we'd be beyond all that nonsense with all the research that has been done on near-death experiences."

Zen Sir, and I do mean this respectfully, as someone who has personally invested a great deal of time into several alternate aspects of Theoretical Quantum Physics/Mechanics inspired consciousness modeling, as well as well as what I have come to term, the "cognitive mechanics of phenomenological observation". I would suggest a slightly less animated and pseudo conclusive approach in addressing your perceived adversary, or in very least those who you hope to impress.

The greatest mudslinging accomplished within the context of this fine blog's post is held firmly between the exterior most framework of it's title. If not to prick and provoke, what exactly does it demonstrate? It literally epitomizes mud slinging. In an awkward, if not ultimately clumsy, and fabricated sense.

What precisely are you hoping to accomplish by providing defense or mediation for such socially stimulated, dimwit observations, as, "UFO Journalist Roger Marsh Ignores Abduction Reports" ?

Please, do tell.

You want context? Try the National Inquirer next time. You'll have far better luck in successfully demonstrating something meaningful there. There, indignant context really doesn't matter and is entertainingly expected.

For the vast majority of the rest of us sincerely UFO curious and concerned individuals, we'll be routinely tuning into those like Roger as well as MANY others of his tried and proved experience based reporting, to get the best information possible on what is of critical concern to us.

However, when we need entertainment, you can be certain we'll be sure to tune back in, here.

Mike Clelland! said...

Reply to Jeff Davis:

I spoke directly with Roger Marsh on the phone. We talked today, and all is fine. There is no stress at all between myself and Roger. I can say that the overall weirdness just got even weirder! More soon, this story continues...

Yes, the headline might seem inflammatory. But, I wanted to state my sense of the situation as clearly as possible. I have a different opinion now after talking to Roger. Who, by the way, said my post was well written, and he said reading his own words he released how I could see it the way I did.

More soon...

Lucretia Heart said...

Wow! Reaction and more reactions!

In the main, I agree with most of the posts here that are pro-open-minded towards abductions, and I can also understand the frustration with those who claim there is no connection between UFOs and abductions. (For those of us who have had direct experiences involving both-- without hypnosis, mind!-- that's a statement guaranteed to get an eye-roll.)

When it comes to the MUFON type nuts n' bolts reports, I pay attention to flaps-- and just realize that there are likely abductions and/or paranormal events in tandem in the same area. Then I go looking for the really interesting reports (if I can find any) beyond the UFO sighting part of it. I wish for better reporting too, but for now you have to dig and pray.

Zen Benefiel said...

I made a comment about experience levels and their notable differences. When one is fully conscious in an environment, with complete participation and sensory engagement and then 'opens their eyes' to find a completely different physical environment it tends to mess with the mind. I was impressed by the work in the movie Inception for that reason.

Lucretia (love the name, btw), we don't find many 'flaps' of reports that contain such experiences. Without exception these kinds of reports are discarded and/or discounted, even made fun of by many it seems. Why would someone want to continue reporting if their work was treated that way? I've kept going and written the books in an attempt to bridge those worlds of direct experience and scientific skepticism.

Mike... glad you had a chance to chat with Roger. My guess is that, knowing you, the chat was fabulous. I'm sure Roger had no 'charge' over what you'd written. Most of the folks I know at MUFON are pretty intelligent and professional.

Our MUFON folks hosted Jim Penniston and John Burroughs a few months back. During the Q & A I asked Jim if he'd had any other non-local experiences since touching the craft (Rendlesham) that night. For an instant he had that deer in the headlights look and then responded without answering my question. I didn't push it.

It's been my experience that those who've started young continue to have engagements but the 'one of' types are usually limited to those singular moments as they spend an exceptional amount of time trying to 'figure them out' for the rest of their lives. I could be wrong [and really hope so] but from the conversations and research I've done it doesn't seem so.

The fact is that studying physics or quantum entanglement (distant electrons behaving similarly) doesn't an experience have. The fact that Jeff wrote in such a manner indicates such, even though one can tell he has a good mind and writing style. I don't have an adversary, Jeff, and I could care less about impressing anyone. I'm pretty transparent and even do have a profile, which I noticed you don't. Why?

Speaking of transparency, I had mentioned near-death experiences earlier. I had the opportunity to present 'my story' to the International Association for Near Death Studies clinicians at their 2010 annual conference. I dare say I went off the reservation and the proverbial cliff at the end of my presentation for a moment, then brought it back to earth. The funny thing is that I was told I'd have an hour initially, then it got whittled down to 20 minutes by the time I hit the stage and I had to adjust accordingly. I love those kinds of challenges where you just have to 'wing it' and rely on inner guidance to get your there. I had also waited 35 years to share my story to such an audience, completely flipping my experience from dismissal to ears wide open.

I look forward to that day with Ufology; where experiencers are invited to participate in the events and discussions. We created UFOlogyPRSS with the intent of bringing resources together, not just links but actual feeds, so that folks could have a broader sampling of what is happening in the 'industry' without having to search the web.

In all fairness I have seen the increase in the inclusion of experiencer groups, led by Dr. Leo Sprinkle and Barbara Lamb. However, they seem more 'appeasing' rather than engaging. People have the chance to share but there is little, if any, follow up. Leo, Barbara and Delores made their way to the stage by sharing what they've heard, filtered, not what they've experienced. That seems a little short-sighted to me, although at least some of the stories are being told.

Thanks again, Mike, for opening up the discussion.