Budd Hopkins and Dr. John Mack share their findings, and their differences. John deals with the multi-dimensional and spiritual aspects, in contrast Budd sees the experience as something more sinister. Video-taped in Boston in 1997.
This busy title graphic doesn't reflect the sparse and level-headed tone of the content.
I am going to editorialize on the state of UFO information and it's visual tone. I need to express my deepest abhorrence to the imagery used to promote videos like this one here, and the one in the post below. I loath the sensationalistic portrayal on DVD boxes, book covers and video title graphics. These slapped together photoshop constructions make my heart sink. I feel a deep "mission" of sorts to try to get this very real subject to be taken seriously, and shabby visuals like these are a pathetic step backwards.
I agree with you about the trashy graphics, but am curious what you would like to see?
The video was great! And it shows how even people with very different viewpoints can have an intelligent and courteous exchange. What a shame this often doesn't occur at many online forums.
In the talk, Bud Hopkins didn't see to get that Earth very much IS being decimated, and rather suggested that these beings are envious of us because we care for each other, our babies, and the planet....One wonders what he means by 'our' and/or what planet HE lived on? (no disrespect to him by saying that though) Bud also didn't seem aware--though it was only 1997--that these 'beings' DO care alos about 'our' use of nuclear weaponry etc (Robert Hastings). I very much am more attracted to Dr Mack's approach who I consider a real scientist or explorer--which I prefer--when he says, in sum-up, how this very strange experience is more so to shock us OUT of our arrogance, of anthropocentric and cosmic egosim. I VERY much miss Dr Mack!
Thank you for posting this excellent video, Mike. It shows how little this field has progressed since 1997.
Great observations, Muzuzuzus. Could these beings be warning us of our reckless disregard towards our planet and testing human reaction to that message?
I can emphasize with Budd's point of view that experiencers have been through pain and suffering, so he cared about them, not the beings. I disagree with Dr. Mack's assertion that suicidal ideation is rare among abductees. I know of one abductee, for example, whose life has been destroyed by her experiences and her kids are now going through the same. Budd, as he admitted, took the worst cases first and acted as a compassionate counselor more than a scientist. He has a point that these beings are deceptive, but then, so are we to each other.
I saw nothing wrong with the approach of either of these two experts, despite their differences. The real issue is the lack of open-minded people like Hopkins and Mack willing to dialog in the public domain.
muzuzuzus, I'm not a huge fan of Hopkins and definitely not a fan of Mack (he was a newbie when it came to the subject and did some really terrible 'leading' of his clients during hypnosis regression, inserting his beliefs).
Hopkins, to his credit, saw the obvious scenario that tended to play out amongst most abductees (or experiencers): taken against your will from your home, car, backyard...- abducted - by these beings (wherever they originate from, we don't know) clearly shows a most basic lack of understanding for humans as individuals. If these beings truly knew our cultures, this horrible behavior would have ceased long ago.
Nothing in my nearly life-long experiences suggest that these beings (and ones I've encountered are mantids and grays) care a wit about humanity or earth. I've usually sensed a chilling, aggressive hatred from them. Their eyes to mine....that stark, raw emotion comes through. It is as much spiritual as it is psychological as it is biological, in my experience.
hmmmm no offense to you Brownie, but I am sure many humans can share that 'chilling aggressive hatred' towards humans--the mindset which is attacking Mother Earth. I am in no way meaning by that that you are of that mindset, I am rather saying what I personally, and some others feel when faced with the insanity of a certain percent of human arroagance that willy nilly just does what the fuck it wills and doesn't give a damn for the consequesces of its actions. And example of such callous disregard? I saw a documentary about Texaco as it invades the neck of the woods of indigenous peoples who have lived sustainably there for who knows how ling--buit those horrors turn up and polluite the earth, water, and air with their oil industry, and they consider the people they invade as "non persons". Now THEY to me are far worse than your 'aliens' because they are *supposed* to be fukin humans.
But my main point is that these very shocking warnings ABOUT what we are doing to Mother Earth is VERY real--whether these entities mean it or not.
Consider that 'aliens' might be using and abusing us (and in some cases other animals) for their own benefit. Just as we humans abuse and misuse other animals and earth's resources.
These aren't wizened, agenda-less, eco-friendly, love & light space brothers.
You know Brownie, when I first started finding out about 'the Greys' etc it seriously freaked me out, and I have gone through diffetrent phases of thinking about this. One of them was like your saying, but more so that they were doing this to SHOW us how we are treating animals---get me? Showing us very directly and dramatically our arrogance. But you know what happens to animals at the hands of humans who have lost their souls is FAR FAR worse. Abductees do not die in depraved abuse in a cage in some goddamned evil building. ALSO, if even just a FEW of Dr Macks reports from people who DO feel spiritually fulfilled from their encounters are true, and reports I have filed about abductees who have had diseases such as cancer healed after their encounter, then this casts doubt on your very pessimistic generalized conclusion about 'them'.
Recently, I have bee re-researching about the amazing encounter which happened to school children in a South African school. Some of them were to see 'aliens' some described as having those big eyes, etc, and how they were telepathically told about how we are harming nature! Now if these being aare as evil as you say they are, why didn't they abduct these children and treat them like lab rats at the same time? IF *not* then what is your view the REASON they would tell these young children this about ecocide, which 'they' have told others who HAVE been abducted?
muzuzuzus to me: "You know Brownie, when I first started finding out about 'the Greys' etc it seriously freaked me out, and I have gone through diffetrent phases of thinking about this. One of them was like your saying, but more so that they were doing this to SHOW us how we are treating animals---get me? Showing us very directly and dramatically our arrogance. But you know what happens to animals at the hands of humans who have lost their souls is FAR FAR worse. Abductees do not die in depraved abuse in a cage in some goddamned evil building." ALSO, if even just a FEW of Dr Macks reports from people who DO feel spiritually fulfilled from their encounters are true, and reports I have filed about abductees who have had diseases such as cancer healed after their encounter, then this casts doubt on your very pessimistic generalized conclusion about 'them'." - - -
Though there are some cases of alleged healings from alien encounters, far more people have had physical ailments (chronic) as well as PTSD. Some family members have claimed loved ones died of cancer or heart attacks from repeated abductions or CEs. I had a young dog that died of an aggressive form of cancer that developed shortly after a group CE (dog included) over my family's backyard, many years ago. I was so traumatized I didn't want another dog in my life until 45 years after I lost my first one.
Then there are mutilations of animals - cattle, sheep, horses and domestic dogs & cats. UFOs are often seen before and during the mutilations. I don't think that's coincidental. And no humans have been arrested regarding these mysterious mutilations (some animals are found cut - as if with a laser- in half, blood removed and left on the owner's property).
Also, as it was pointed out in this discussion with Mack and Hopkins,these beings have the ability to radically change a person's emotions - one moment you're filled with love/bliss/contentment/peace - you'd give up your child for that feeling and the next moment you're in excruciating physical pain and emotionally a wreck. All in the wave of an alien's hand over a person's forehead. Now, where ever that power comes from it's being used to manipulate people, imo and in my experience.
I don't suscribe to the ETH as it is. How absurd to travel to a planet, abduct people and perform repetitive, painful, antiquated sexual and colon exams, as well as rape, on people followed up with mind-melding apocalyptic imagry.
I've sensed, for many years now, that these beings are much closer to home (maybe interdimensional or cryptoterrestrial or djinn or nephilim).
muzuzuzus to me: "Recently, I have bee re-researching about the amazing encounter which happened to school children in a South African school. Some of them were to see 'aliens' some described as having those big eyes, etc, and how they were telepathically told about how we are harming nature! Now if these being aare as evil as you say they are, why didn't they abduct these children and treat them like lab rats at the same time? IF *not* then what is your view the REASON they would tell these young children this about ecocide, which 'they' have told others who HAVE been abducted?" - - -
^ Read link. Actually some of the students thought the 'alien' was a "tokoloshie" - a human-eating being from the folklore of the particular tribal culture of some of the students.
Not every CE results in a physical abduction. At best we can hypothesis or share what we've personally experienced as well as what we've read or researched.
All I can say to that lot is...Oh God. I can see there is not much point me debating this with you because from where I sit you have a very doom-laden perspective on this. I find that worrisome, because I do not. I am certianly not a New Ager and all fluffy and light, but I find your position the other extreme. IF you want to embrace your paranoid interpretation over all of this then that is your choosing, but it isn't mine.
Because my experiences (which are similar to many others touched by this phenomena) don't fit your belief system of benevolent, eco-friendly cancer-healing ETs, doesn't mean I have a "paranoid interpretation". I have great hope for humanity.
10 comments:
Oh wow, there's so much to watch here with this ink and the next one. Thanks so much, Mike. My viewing pleasure is cut out for me tomorrow!
I agree with you about the trashy graphics, but am curious what you would like to see?
The video was great! And it shows how even people with very different viewpoints can have an intelligent and courteous exchange. What a shame this often doesn't occur at many online forums.
In the talk, Bud Hopkins didn't see to get that Earth very much IS being decimated, and rather suggested that these beings are envious of us because we care for each other, our babies, and the planet....One wonders what he means by 'our' and/or what planet HE lived on? (no disrespect to him by saying that though) Bud also didn't seem aware--though it was only 1997--that these 'beings' DO care alos about 'our' use of nuclear weaponry etc (Robert Hastings).
I very much am more attracted to Dr Mack's approach who I consider a real scientist or explorer--which I prefer--when he says, in sum-up, how this very strange experience is more so to shock us OUT of our arrogance, of anthropocentric and cosmic egosim. I VERY much miss Dr Mack!
Thank you for posting this excellent video, Mike. It shows how little this field has progressed since 1997.
Great observations, Muzuzuzus. Could these beings be warning us of our reckless disregard towards our planet and testing human reaction to that message?
I can emphasize with Budd's point of view that experiencers have been through pain and suffering, so he cared about them, not the beings. I disagree with Dr. Mack's assertion that suicidal ideation is rare among abductees. I know of one abductee, for example, whose life has been destroyed by her experiences and her kids are now going through the same. Budd, as he admitted, took the worst cases first and acted as a compassionate counselor more than a scientist. He has a point that these beings are deceptive, but then, so are we to each other.
I saw nothing wrong with the approach of either of these two experts, despite their differences. The real issue is the lack of open-minded people like Hopkins and Mack willing to dialog in the public domain.
muzuzuzus, I'm not a huge fan of Hopkins and definitely not a fan of Mack (he was a newbie when it came to the subject and did some really terrible 'leading' of his clients during hypnosis regression, inserting his beliefs).
Hopkins, to his credit, saw the obvious scenario that tended to play out amongst most abductees (or experiencers): taken against your will from your home, car, backyard...- abducted - by these beings (wherever they originate from, we don't know) clearly shows a most basic lack of understanding for humans as individuals. If these beings truly knew our cultures, this horrible behavior would have ceased long ago.
Nothing in my nearly life-long experiences suggest that these beings (and ones I've encountered are mantids and grays) care a wit about humanity or earth. I've usually sensed a chilling, aggressive hatred from them. Their eyes to mine....that stark, raw emotion comes through. It is as much spiritual as it is psychological as it is biological, in my experience.
~ Susan
hmmmm no offense to you Brownie, but I am sure many humans can share that 'chilling aggressive hatred' towards humans--the mindset which is attacking Mother Earth. I am in no way meaning by that that you are of that mindset, I am rather saying what I personally, and some others feel when faced with the insanity of a certain percent of human arroagance that willy nilly just does what the fuck it wills and doesn't give a damn for the consequesces of its actions.
And example of such callous disregard? I saw a documentary about Texaco as it invades the neck of the woods of indigenous peoples who have lived sustainably there for who knows how ling--buit those horrors turn up and polluite the earth, water, and air with their oil industry, and they consider the people they invade as "non persons". Now THEY to me are far worse than your 'aliens' because they are *supposed* to be fukin humans.
But my main point is that these very shocking warnings ABOUT what we are doing to Mother Earth is VERY real--whether these entities mean it or not.
muzuzuzus,
Consider that 'aliens' might be using and abusing us (and in some cases other animals) for their own benefit. Just as we humans abuse and misuse other animals and earth's resources.
These aren't wizened, agenda-less, eco-friendly, love & light space brothers.
You know Brownie, when I first started finding out about 'the Greys' etc it seriously freaked me out, and I have gone through diffetrent phases of thinking about this. One of them was like your saying, but more so that they were doing this to SHOW us how we are treating animals---get me? Showing us very directly and dramatically our arrogance. But you know what happens to animals at the hands of humans who have lost their souls is FAR FAR worse. Abductees do not die in depraved abuse in a cage in some goddamned evil building.
ALSO, if even just a FEW of Dr Macks reports from people who DO feel spiritually fulfilled from their encounters are true, and reports I have filed about abductees who have had diseases such as cancer healed after their encounter, then this casts doubt on your very pessimistic generalized conclusion about 'them'.
Recently, I have bee re-researching about the amazing encounter which happened to school children in a South African school. Some of them were to see 'aliens' some described as having those big eyes, etc, and how they were telepathically told about how we are harming nature! Now if these being aare as evil as you say they are, why didn't they abduct these children and treat them like lab rats at the same time? IF *not* then what is your view the REASON they would tell these young children this about ecocide, which 'they' have told others who HAVE been abducted?
muzuzuzus to me: "You know Brownie, when I first started finding out about 'the Greys' etc it seriously freaked me out, and I have gone through diffetrent phases of thinking about this. One of them was like your saying, but more so that they were doing this to SHOW us how we are treating animals---get me? Showing us very directly and dramatically our arrogance. But you know what happens to animals at the hands of humans who have lost their souls is FAR FAR worse. Abductees do not die in depraved abuse in a cage in some goddamned evil building."
ALSO, if even just a FEW of Dr Macks reports from people who DO feel spiritually fulfilled from their encounters are true, and reports I have filed about abductees who have had diseases such as cancer healed after their encounter, then this casts doubt on your very pessimistic generalized conclusion about 'them'." - - -
Though there are some cases of alleged healings from alien encounters, far more people have had physical ailments (chronic) as well as PTSD. Some family members have claimed loved ones died of cancer or heart attacks from repeated abductions or CEs. I had a young dog that died of an aggressive form of cancer that developed shortly after a group CE (dog included) over my family's backyard, many years ago. I was so traumatized I didn't want another dog in my life until 45 years after I lost my first one.
Then there are mutilations of animals - cattle, sheep, horses and domestic dogs & cats. UFOs are often seen before and during the mutilations. I don't think that's coincidental. And no humans have been arrested regarding these mysterious mutilations (some animals are found cut - as if with a laser- in half, blood removed and left on the owner's property).
Also, as it was pointed out in this discussion with Mack and Hopkins,these beings have the ability to radically change a person's emotions - one moment you're filled with love/bliss/contentment/peace - you'd give up your child for that feeling and the next moment you're in excruciating physical pain and emotionally a wreck. All in the wave of an alien's hand over a person's forehead. Now, where ever that power comes from it's being used to manipulate people, imo and in my experience.
I don't suscribe to the ETH as it is. How absurd to travel to a planet, abduct people and perform repetitive, painful, antiquated sexual and colon exams, as well as rape, on people followed up with mind-melding apocalyptic imagry.
I've sensed, for many years now, that these beings are much closer to home (maybe interdimensional or cryptoterrestrial or djinn or nephilim).
muzuzuzus to me: "Recently, I have bee re-researching about the amazing encounter which happened to school children in a South African school. Some of them were to see 'aliens' some described as having those big eyes, etc, and how they were telepathically told about how we are harming nature! Now if these being aare as evil as you say they are, why didn't they abduct these children and treat them like lab rats at the same time? IF *not* then what is your view the REASON they would tell these young children this about ecocide, which 'they' have told others who HAVE been abducted?" - - -
http://www.ufocasebook.com/2008b/1994zimbabwe.html
^ Read link. Actually some of the students thought the 'alien' was a "tokoloshie" - a human-eating being from the folklore of the particular tribal culture of some of the students.
Not every CE results in a physical abduction. At best we can hypothesis or share what we've personally experienced as well as what we've read or researched.
~ Susan
All I can say to that lot is...Oh God. I can see there is not much point me debating this with you because from where I sit you have a very doom-laden perspective on this. I find that worrisome, because I do not. I am certianly not a New Ager and all fluffy and light, but I find your position the other extreme. IF you want to embrace your paranoid interpretation over all of this then that is your choosing, but it isn't mine.
muzuzuzus,
Because my experiences (which are similar to many others touched by this phenomena) don't fit your belief system of benevolent, eco-friendly cancer-healing ETs, doesn't mean I have a "paranoid interpretation". I have great hope for humanity.
Kind Regards,
Susan
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