Lorin Cutts
Lorin Cutts is an author, a researcher and a radio show host. I was first drawn to Lorin's work when he did an audio program about a life-long contactee, Brigitte Barclay. I was extremely intrigued when I realized that she was talking a lot about synchronicites and owls!
two hours and 33 minutes long
He is also working on a book about Ms. Barclay's experiences, and HERE is an article where he touches on some of her experiences.
There was also a point in our interview where Lorin was suddenly overwhelmed by a loud ringing in his ear. I was tempted to edit this out, but chose to leave it in because these things can sometimes be a clue to something even stranger.
Lorin's website, HERE.
Please note:
I drank a strong cup of coffee before we recorded the conversation, and I ended up being a frenetic chatty-pants. Be forewarned.
Lorin mentions this video with Jacques Vallee during the conversation
Jacques Vallee speaking to the present day UFO mystery
___________________________________________________
29 comments:
Wow, long. This will be an evening's listening. Looks intriguing.
Great interview Mike !!! I think you are both right about many things."Perception Research" and understanding language are the keys to making any sense of this "Meta Phenomenon". I think Buddha (whether he actually existed or not) was right when he said The Mind is the foreground of all things.
Keep up the great work.
Bright.
Hey Mike - I forgot to say I agree with you both about posting updates on our experiences. I killed my Facebook account but have included some of my experiences on my blog just after they've happened because I knew there were people who were interested (that I also considered internet friends)who followed my blog. Here's one from the other day http://otherworldyencounters.wordpress.com/2012/08/07/new-alien-encounter-july-29th-2012-quick-update/ .
Also I wonder if Lorin has heard of Preston's work on Topanga Canyon : http://www.amazon.com/UFOs-Topanga-Canyon-Preston-Dennett/dp/1567182216 ?
Hey Mike - would you have any interest on a whole show about the tones that people hear. Mine are bugging me like mad at the moment !
PS. 1 more thing. Any chance of doing an interview with Stace - she has done some great work as you said and she's a great person !
I get more good links from your website than any place on the web, Mike. Just wanted to say thanks for that.
I was very impressed listening to the conversation with you and Lorin. Other than my having seen a couple of ufos, both great sightings, my experiences afterward are of a varied nature, none particularly specific to ufos, but more inclined to point me inward. it's great to hear someone suggest that mine are part of a meta-phenomena, something I've suspected. I'll add that I've considered them, as well as synchronicities, magic. Very good show.
Carol
Forgot to meniton that my spouse has spoken with entities in his dreams for many years since a near death experience in his youth. When I ask him about them, he can't say much about them before the pressure in his head builds to the extent he has to stop talking. As a consequence, he believes he isn't supposed to share what he's been told. He doesn't know if he generated that pressure himself or if there's more to it.
Lorin's mention of the ringing in his ears and his suggestion that sometimes one isn't to talk about certain topics ... made the hair on my arm stand on end.
Carol
Thank you for all your comments and feedback. Garlick, I am aware of Preston Dennet's work regarding Topanga and UFOs... and Brigitte got to meet him shooting a documentary for the BBC in Los Angeles recently.
Very nice interview. I very much enjoyed how Lorin managed to change an initially negative experience into an almost orgiastic mystical moment —very in tune with my current line of thinking.
And that issue with the ear ringing was... disturbing, for reasons I'm yet to fathom —that happens to me from time to time; I wonder if Lorin is also sensitive to electromagnetic buzzing.
Vindication, thy name is Jacques Valleé.
"Given the current state of the field, it is probably more productive for me to continue quiet research behind the scenes rather than trying to speak publicly. I have been declining all interviews because anything I would say would be lost in the noise. People just want to hear about Roswell and abductions, and they already know the answers, so they don't need research. They are simply looking for confirmation of what they already believe. Cordially, Jacques."
* * * * *
Talk about a day-brightener.
Maybe this is me projecting, but I somehow managed to wrangle an unambiguous interpretation from Valleé's rather straightforward RSVP. Half-admonishment, half-lamentation, it is a rotating beacon flashing the words "NOBODY HEARS" into the black void.
When I make the same points - practically verbatim - reactionary dimwits accuse me, ever so obliquely, of heralding some rainbow-farting Unicorn version of the enigma. No one with two brain cells and a dying spark between them would levy the same absurd accusation against the iconic Valleé - no Manchurian Candidate, he! - but his words, too, are the sound of a tree falling in the forest.
It does make me wonder, though, what form Valleé's research is taking these days. I would bet my surly disposition and turgid prose it transcends the anecdotal. Hell, it might even transcend Science-As-We-Know-It! "Only Nixon could go to China," as the very old and dated saying goes.
Thanks for sharing the correspondence, Lorin, and thank you both for an interesting conversation.
Yes - what Arvin just said!
There were rumors that Vallee had been consulting Bigelow's team when they were investigating the Skinwalker ranch, but he signed a non-disclosure agreement. I don't know if someone has ever asked him to confirm this.
I believe Jacques is studying synchronicity these days. Can't wait to see what is coming... assuming it will be published. Being a data and statistics kind of guy, I think he will throw up some interesting points.
The reason Messengers of Deception should be on any Fortean's Top Ten books is not because of Vallee's warnings about the possible control of the UFO mythos to serve the interests of governments or secret organizations, but because of his trying to come to terms with how synchronicities could be reconciled with the laws of Physics.
His conclusions —that instead of living in a purely mechanistic Universe where cause must precede the effect, we seem to be living in an Associative Universe— was probably completely overlooked by the nuts-and-bolts crowd mainly because a)almost none of them had ever interacted with a computer; and b)they were too busy frothing in rage with Vallee's initial ideas to pay attention.
But now that thanks to the Internetz all of us have grown accustomed to hyper-text links and the non-linear ways to pair information regardless of Time & Space, his little book seems as brilliant as Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity. Thank Ctulhu we're beginning to catch up with him ;)
I stumbled across this podcast with
Jonathan Talat Phillips
called
" “The Electric Jesus” and Gnosis with Jonathan Talat Phillips on The DisinfoCast with Matt Staggs "
http://www.disinfo.com/2012/06/the-electric-jesus-and-gnosis-with-jonathan-talat-phillips-on-the-disinfocast-with-matt-staggs/#disqus_thread
It deals with shamanism,abductions,Gnosticism...and all sorts of stuff.
I think you,or Lorin
(or anyone here) might find it an interesting listen.
Re: Vallée, Biggaload & Rumored NDA
Intellectual property. Now there's an oxymoron. Is there nothing we can't turn into a weapon of mass destruction? It's unfortunate so many are willing to sign up as ecocidal co-conspirators for a little peek at what's behind the curtain. But, hey, billionaires don't grow on trees, or even think about 'em. Big Money means big secrets. $hhhhh.
* * * * * *
"Thank Ctulhu we're beginning to catch up with him ;)"
Vallée doesn't seem to think so, RPJ, but I'll be the first to acknowledge [note to self] plural pronouns are tricky business, and mass trends of the slow-rolling variety are not easy to discern.
My bones of contention are not with Vallée's ideas or earnest acolytes. I'm featured on others' short lists of "Gadflies, Crazies and Demons To Avoid," but my sole nemesis is Authoritarianism. There are rivers of it surging beneath the obsequious, careerist, habitually name-dropped incantations used to (in my best Tom Waits voice, with Halleluja! hands) "alchemically transform any old swill into some fine-ass Champagne replete with a bottle that makes a dandy bludgeon all for less than a dolla-ninety-nine."
Vallée, himself - like Jesus, Shakespeare or Russell Brand - is blameless for the sins of The Devout.
* * * * * *
Lorin, if you're still reading, I'm curious what you think about Vallée's mournful sigh. You sounded somewhat taken aback by it, but - apart from any shaky commitment to the word "cynical" - never really articulated your thoughts on his perspective.
Like RPJ, I find your terror-to-bliss experience very interesting. But I laughed during your recounting of having forgotten about seeing a landed craft/whatever. Forgetting is a fascinating subject.
My wife and I were together when she witnessed her first UFO - an unobstructed daylight sighting lasting several minutes, affording generous views with and without binoculars. This was back in the early days of my/our Contact initiation (2008). She knew I wasn't entirely a nutter, but Experience is the lingua franca of This Sort Of Thing, and, until then, she had none and mine had ramped up to the level of intense. Within hours, though, she had zero recollection of the event, which I found no less shocking than the jaw-dropping fly-by's I'd been witnessing in my backyard.
This, in my know-nuthin' opinion, is most often because of normal cognitive processing of novel events rather than deliberate external modulation of cognitive function. These are not mutually exclusive modalities, and, sometimes, there are overlays. People who flatly characterize "manipulation" of this sort as evil would reconsider if they understood autonomy would end with clutching one's chest, dropping to the knees and exiting This Mortal Coil when a "not-from-around-here" something or other floats over the tree line. I've never passed out from anything I've seen, but I've come rrrrrreal close a few times.
Again - Yes, what Arvin says!
He and I have chatted a bit, and we share a LOT in common. He writes that 2008 was back in the early days of his "contact initiation" - That fits my life EXACTLY - Yes, what Arvin says - Yes!
"ARVIIIIIIN!!"
Hmmm... that ain't right, I think...
:P
"He and I have chatted a bit, and we share a LOT in common."
Which your audience can be forgiven for finding extremely hard to believe.
"writes that 2008 was back in the early days of his "contact initiation" - That fits my life EXACTLY - Yes, what Arvin says - Yes!"
Well, that wasn't so hard, was it.
No harder than, say, assisting Grandpappy with a crossword puzzle for a year or so.
Take it from me and my good friend, "Hapless Jacques" Vallée: Nobody really gives a shit but us chickens.
You Have Been Assimilated.
Now gimme my prize, bitch!
* * * * *
RPJ: "ARVIIIIIIN!!" Hmmm... that ain't right, I think...
Maybe. Maybe not. Probably. My missives are minefields of words that aren't there. I'm not responsible for those; only the ones on the page - and my generosity provides plenty of raw material to fashion a shiv or garotte for anyone so inclined.
I'm reluctant to use the term "Devil's Advocate" since I've dodged swipes from that broken, bloody bottle more than once, and will again. Gallows humor makes the medicine go down. Mine is just another perspective, expressed with as much honesty and authenticity as I can bear, and bear inflicting, which - GLORY TO FREAKING GOD - is pretty much the extent of my personal, social and spiritual obligations insofar as that whole Contact Thing is concerned.
I suck at it, by the way.
Today's spring-in-the-step is tomorrow's face plant. Such are the hazards of being a self-aware, unambitious, overbearing asshole. To my credit, I clean up great for parties. Nobody knows a thing.
In any case, RPJ, whatever that is I'm not right about, you will be far from alone in your assessment, which may very well be a correct one.
Either way or no way, I'm cool with it. One person's right is another's wrong. And I never learn anything by being right.
Later, Alligators.
Wow! Good to read you again, Arvin. Very funny as well as insightful. Still writing that book? I've been waiting patiently.
No, you won't remember me at all, but I enjoyed your blog immensely.
Carol
Hi, Carol. Thank you. Of course, I remember you. I never forget kind, intelligent people. Since I count on my fingers, keeping track is never a problem. Keeping up is another story.
I'm a lousy editor and don't trust anyone else to do it, which should surprise no one. Fall down seven times. Stand up eight.
'Lorin, if you're still reading, I'm curious what you think about Vallée's mournful sigh. You sounded somewhat taken aback by it, but - apart from any shaky commitment to the word "cynical" - never really articulated your thoughts on his perspective.'
Arvin,
I think Jacques is largely right in his sentiments.
As predicted in 'Messengers Of Deception', we are now arrived at a place within mainstream culture where there is little dialogue about what these things actually are (outside of possible ET visitation).
However, having talked with Donald Schmitt... the other side of the coin is that the UFO community also seems to be tired of hearing about Roswell too.
I think the research community needs some new blood, new ideas and some new cases. And we need to stop forming factions and talk about our ideas and research amongst ourselves.
We also need to forget about the mainstream media - perhaps largely the reason for the lack of discussions within the wider populace.
They will not change as long as their puppet-masters remain in place... and they will only work to an agenda of:
1) selling advertising/creating revenue
2) providing mindless entertainment over hard, scientific or serious research
and
3) attempting to control public opinion or even, in some cases, attempt to cover up evidence of a genuine phenomena (see puppet-masters above).
In my opinion, many of Vallee's ideas are going to come of age. He was just largely ahead of his time... and his ideas are not media friendly or easy to grasp for most people at all.
Lorin
Reply to Arvin and Lorin:
Let me chime in, Lorin made one comment that I want to address.
Lorin wrote:
----------
"We also need to forget about the mainstream media..."
I agree. From where I'm at with all of this, the mainstream media does not eve enter my mind. It has evaporated from my world view. It is a nonentity, and I see it as something broken and beyond repair.
I have absolutely zero interest in proving anything, or changing anyone's mind.
All I can do is to proceed forward with an open mind and honesty. And, I wanna ask hard questions - mostly to myself.
(this goes for the rest of the UFO research field too)
Mike C!
Thanks for the comments, Lorin & Mike. I'm mostly in agreement. It must be the heat.
The only thing I would take issue with is the perfectly reasonable assumption more and better cases will yield more and better understanding. As much as I would like that to be true, I am far from convinced.
UFO researchers are a diverse lot, but, almost universally, they view the phenomenon from rearview mirrors and the turned pages of books. They are backwards oriented. Reactive. Passive. Few could distinguish Arcturus from the other stars in their eyes.
Where are the multidisciplinary teams conducting field research and engaging this phenomenon, for the benefit of the public, in a way that lends itself to collective, cooperative, open-source examination?
Nowhereville, man.
Maybe pop culture, media and cultural matrices, fortune tellers, horror stories, thrill seekers, premium subscriber grifters and psychedelic unicorns aren't ufology's most imposing impediments after all. Maybe these are just styrofoam peanuts filling an otherwise empty box created by an amazing and amazingly fucked up species that prefers Fear, in all its disguises, to naked Curiosity. Maybe UFO researchers - scientists and rank amateurs alike - are no different from anyone else who wants only to lean in for a good story and puke up an excited opinion every now and then. Maybe we profess a desire to know, but because all knowledge is ultimately self-reflective and, thus, more painful than a cigarette burn, scorpion sting or easy money, all we truly seek is self-assuring ignorance wrought into a nonexistent Eternal Mystery - unyielding, unthinking, uncaring, unknowable and, yet, oddly familiar.
Nothing ventured, nothing lost.
The dearth of cooperation in a world rich with resources is something to consider when conversations turn to UFO intelligences engaging individuals rather than whole tribes of willfully ignorant, big-brained cannibals slaughtering each other and the planet for social advantage.
Or, as one thoughtful, highly esteemed scientist! remarked only a few short years ago: "I am discounting reports of UFOs. Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos?" Today, like The Wizard of Oz, he issues dire warnings to The People Of Earth on the grim fate awaiting all who would dare steal a look at what, if anything, lurks behind the curtain of polite conversation. Whatever it is that isn't there will surely devour us! You don't want to be devoured, do you?
No, but I still have to get some lunch.
Thanks for the riffs, peeps.
I think Vallee's work is overrated. This is due in part to the shamefully poor work done by others in the field. It is also due to the current valorization of Vallee as a kind of counter-authority over and above the other 'tradition' (which is not a tradition) of the so-called ETH.
Vallee, in fact, is largely to blame for the straw man of the 'ETH'. First of all, the extra-terrestrial hypothesis is not a hypothesis. At best, it is a theory used to account for a variety of data. It is not a hypothesis, strictly speaking, because it is not testable in any kind of controlled setting.
Second, those who persist in using the term 'ETH' exhibit a kind of basic illiteracy that calls into doubt anything they have to say on the topic. The term 'extra-terrestrial' means 'not of earth' or 'not originating from earth'. It's a purely negative term. 'Extra-terrestrial' does not mean 'from another nearby planet' any more than 'extra-curricular' automatically means baseball.
The fact that a giant paradigm-splitting debate can be organized around such a basic confusion and a stupidity is sign that basic thinking is not what's at stake in the debate. Short-sightedness on the part of so-called 'nuts-and-bolts' researchers produced a split of a basically political nature whereafter people from the other side now use this straw man term 'ETH' to denote the enemy, and replace it with the totally empty and meaningless term 'interdimensional'.
Here's an intriguing question -- so intriguing a five-year-old could think of it: what if these others who are 'interdimensional' come from a *planet* in another dimension? Usually when the straw man ETH is spoken of and rejected (even on shows like this) it is dismissed along with the description that it implies usual 'nuts and bolts craft coming from another planet'. Well? If the planet's in another dimension and the UFO is a 'ship', what then? Wouldn't that make it both 'interdimensional' and part of the 'ETH' to use both appalling terms?
Simple and basic question -- and destroys the whole 'debate' according to the terms in which it is presented on the whole gamut of podcasts these days. Of course, if the terms were actually cleared up and used with any intelligence the whole debate would disappear. You wouldn't have people parroting complaints about the 'ETH'.
Vallee wasn't a native English speaker. Aimé Michel, another Frenchman, is also credited with using the term early on. One wonders whether there wasn't something lost in translation with the so-called extraterrestrial hypothesis and whether that doesn't account for much of the confusion today. If so, Vallee is partly responsible for one of the most divisive and nonsensical splits in UFOlogy today.
@ Lord Jim:
What we're dealing here are obviously interdimensional spirits from another planet who visit us occasionally —from the future.
;)
[bookmarked]
The Dude Abides.
Lord Jim, with roughneck skill and digits intact, wraps the chain 'round and 'round and 'round the billowing neck fat of this whole fraudulent franchise. Time for a trip into international waters.
Thanks, Lord Jim. My workload just got lighter, as I will be referring designated sinners to your apoplectic dialectic. As you know, their numbers are high, high, high. Let the atonement begin.
In my more charitable moments, I just write off the McCarthyite zeal for straw man pejoratives as value neutral manifestations of a subject which doesn't lend itself to linguistic expression. Not that I have many of those moments, but that's how effectively I lie to myself! Just not today.
Hey Mike,
My husband and I are the ones you mention in this podcast meeting at the conference in February. I was listening to this interview a couple of weeks ago while getting ready for work and was enjoying it so much that I decided to post a comment about it, which is something I very rarely do (I've only posted twice before.) So, as I'm listening I'm thinking about what I'm going to post and how I'm going to phrase it. And at the exact moment that I said in my head, "I'm the woman you met at the UFO conference in February..." you said, "I met a woman at the UFO conference in February..." My mouth fell open and I instantly knew you were talking about me even though I'm sure you met plenty of people there besides me!
Since I had to leave for work I planned on posting when I got back home. But, later when I tried to turn my computer on it wouldn't come on. I just got this thing in December and spent quite a bit of money on it! I had paid for an in-home service plan so I set an appt for a technician to come out. To make a long story short, the tech couldn't fix it (even after replacing the motherboard) and said he'd never seen anything like it in his 16 yrs. So I reluctantly had to mail it off for repairs. In the meantime, I was using my ipad to quell my internet withdrawal symptoms. I had been looking at many other sites on the Safari browser with no problems but everytime I tried to view your site the browser would shut down! Weird, huh?! I don't know what any of that means, just thought I'd mention it. But it did make me wonder about something else... Remember several months ago when you emailed me about the blood test? Around that time I had sent you a couple of emails with pictures attached. I never heard back from you but I just assumed you were busy. Now I'm curious, did you ever get those pictures? One email had pics of me and Colin Andrews and some orbs which was meaningful to me because his presentation had such a profound affect on me. And because immediately after his presentation my husband and I had an incredible ufo sighting (my husband's first.) And this sighting and the orb pics were kind of a confirmation for me that the emotional response I had to Colin and my intuition about his honesty and integrity were correct (I knew basically nothing about him before the conference, other than being familiar with his name.)
The other pictures were a little more personal and included a family member which I don't want to go into here.
Anyway, the main thing that made me want to post about the interview with Lorin was when he talked about having the ufo sighting and then completely forgetting about it. I only recently started making little notes in a calender when unusal things happen and now I really wish I had been doing this all along. In June I was writing about being awakened by high-pitched beeping tones when I decided to flip back and look at some of the other stuff I had written. I was completely ASTONISHED to see that only the month before I had written about hearing the same beeping noise! I had completely forgotten this and was under the impression the second incident was the first time I had ever heard it! I can't emphasize enough how this blew my mind. I can only imagine what other things I may have forgotten.
Anyway, great interview with Lorin! I really enjoyed it! And I didn't think you sounded like a "crazy, frenetic chatty pants!" Lol
Oh my God! I just looked at the time after posting and it was 12:34 in my time zone! But it posted in your time zone as 11:34.
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