the challenge of hypnosis

Hypnosis is a source of bitter contention within the UFO community. One faction would see it as vital in abduction research, while the other would dismiss anything gained through hypnosis as useless—or destructive. 

In early November of 2017, I was invited to a home in New Hampshire where a small group of experiencers were planning to gather for a pot luck on a Saturday evening. Seven of the people expected to attend had let me share their stories in my books, so I was eager to make the long drive to join them. 

Abduction researcher Mary Rodwell was part of the gathering, and I had emailed her to arrange a hypnosis session while I was there. We scheduled it for Sunday morning, so I brought a sleeping bag and pad and spent the night in a room used as an office. I awoke at dawn to the hooting of a barred owl out the window. 

That morning, Mary and I spent almost two hours in an empty bedroom. She hypnotized me in hopes of finding the source of my fears in connection with my UFO experiences, and the story that emerged really shook me up. I cried a lot during the session, and Mary dried my tears.

What came through was jumbled and emotional, and I didn’t know what to make of it. The story was remarkable, and much of it matched with what I had read in abduction accounts. I shared the details with a few friends, but was cautious to treat it as a memory of a real event.

  this is a long post - read more below  

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I had attempted hypnosis several times with various researchers before that Sunday morning with Mary in New Hampshire; I’d tried with Leo Sprinkle, Barbara Lamb and Budd Hopkins. I consider all of them skilled hypnotherapists and extremely caring, yet very little emerged in those earlier attempts. They all took place during a time when these issues were terribly oppressive, and I think I was too anxious to fully go under. 

I had an extremely successful experience with hypnosis in the summer of 2014. I was working with Lorraine Flaherty, a past-life hypnotherapist, and my goal was to deal with my issues of clinical depression. 

Unlike the previous attempts, I feel I was fully under and the results were miraculous. Though not our focus, we touched on some UFO experiences, and what came out was so poetic that all I could do was treat it as some sort of grand metaphor. That account is told in a post titled: thoughts on a past life hypnosis session.

I also did a session with Dianne Morrison using the hypnosis techniques developed by Dolores Cannon. That experience was quite therapeutic, but we hardly touched on any UFO issues.

I was in Los Angeles in August of 2018, and was staying with my friend Greg Bishop. He’s a UFO researcher and author, and hosts a weekly radio interview show. I was in his living room when I told him that I had an appointment to do a hypnosis session with abduction researcher Yvonne Smith.

He looked at me sternly and said, “Well, you do that and you know what you’re going to find.”

I replied, “I get what you mean, but I really want to go to as many hypnotherapists as I can. I want to see what comes up, to try to figure out if their outlook influences anything.”

He immediately lit up, smiled and said, “I can get behind that!”

I explained that Mac Tonnies and I had talked about this several times, it would be like an old Vincent Price movie where he plays the mad scientist who tests his potions on himself. 

The next day I drove to Pasadena and arrived at Yvonne’s office about a half an hour early. There was a park right next door and I spent that time lying on the grass in the warmth of the sun. I spoke aloud, declaring that I was open and receptive to whatever would help me better understand these experiences. I was ready to move forward, and I said so. 

When I sent the initial email to Yvonne to try to make an appointment, she replied, “So nice to hear from you. I am currently reading your book about synchronicity and owls.” I think that counts as a synchronicity about owls and UFOs. 

I did an audio interview with Yvonne back in 2012. She is soft spoken in a way that is almost disarming, and talks about her research into the UFO contact experience with a kind of calmness that doesn’t match the crazy intensity of the subject.

In both the 2017 session with Mary and the 2018 session with Yvonne, I wanted to explore the events of March 10, 2013, because there had never been any fear associated with this experience.

The session with Mary played out as a bit disjointed, and a cleaner narrative emerged with Yvonne, yet the story was essentially the same. 

I don’t think the differences had anything to do with the techniques of the therapists, but more that I felt a little nervous going into the session with Mary, and we tried to cover a number of other events, while Yvonne focused on just that one night.

When I was under the hypnotic trance with Yvonne, the story began in a nearly identical way, and it felt like I was watching a re-run of Mary’s session. I tried to avoid going down the exact same path, but it didn’t seem like I had any control. The same story emerged. I am posting segments of the transcript with Yvonne simply because it’s a bit easier to follow.

At a few points the time count on the audio file is noted because I try to pay attention to certain synchronistic numbers.

After the induction, Yvonne asked about the night of March 10, 2013. This was when I saw a round structure on a hilltop in southern Utah while sleeping outside. 

All dialogue is Mike unless noted as Yvonne (in bold text). Time counts noted throughout. Explanations are noted as indented text.

Yvonne: just describe anything that comes forward.

Mike: I’m in my sleeping bag, and it’s calm to just roll around and look at the stars. Off to my left is the hillside, and there is this structure that looks like a flying saucer, or a house. It’s got a ring of lights [around the the outside]. It seems more like a section out of a cylinder… If I do look at the object, all I need to do it turn my head. It’s not hidden… and I have no sense of fear at all, and it certainly looks like a landed craft. There is no sense of concern or worry, more just curiosity at how this ended up there…

The descriptions of the round structure matched my conscious memories. I then began to describe waking up and seeing an odd light behind a big bush at the foot of my sleeping bag. 

Mike: There is a glow behind the bush. I know it’s them, I know it’s them, I know that it’s them, but I'm just dismissing it as though it’s just a light. 

Yvonne: Try not to question yourself, try not to analyze… get in touch with that feeling and emotion that it’s them and just describe what you are sensing or seeing or hearing.

Mike: I’m sensing this knowing, that it’s them, and I need to lie down again. 

Yvonne: And were you lying down?

Mike: I was sort of sitting up and I laid back down… I feel like I just snapped back to sleep or something…

(there's a distinct change in my voice)

I’m out, I'm out, I'm looking down at this thing. It’s big and I'm looking down at it. It seems just black, I guess there are little lights around it. And I'm floating and I'm above it and I’m… I don’t think I'm in my body, it's some other thing.

Yvonne: Do you feel you’re out of body?

Mike: I think I'm still lying in the sleeping bag, but some part of me is looking down at this thing. 

Yvonne: Do you get a sense of anyone around you?

Mike: I’m not alone. It just feels like this again. Like, oh God—this again.

Yvonne: Just describe everything.

Mike: I’m walking in a hallway.

Yvonne: Can you describe the hallway.  

recreation of the hallway as it seemed during the session

Mike: The floor is flat but the walls are all curved… I don’t know how I got in there, all of a sudden I'm just walking there. I'm not alone. They are on either side, on one side or the other, there is either one or two on one side, or one or two on the other. They are on the side of me. They aren’t in front of me, and they aren’t behind me. 

Yvonne: can you describe them?

Mike: They’re bald and skinny and big eyes and… but it’s… I feel like… I'm not tall anymore…

Yvonne: Do they feel familiar to you?

Mike: (immediate answer) Yes. But it’s… (groan) mysterious at the same time, it feels like SO normal… Can I go deeper? Can you do something? I just need to be deeper… 

Yvonne: Take a deep breath, allow yourself to drift down deeper (she goes though a verbal process to deepen the hypnotic state) Do you still feel yourself going down they hallway?

Mike: Yeah, I’m not me, I'm one of them, and I feel like I'm a little bit mixed up but it feels completely normal. It feels like they had a rubber suit, like on a hook or on a coat hanger and I just ended up in it. And now I'm walking down this hall as something else. And I'm the same height as the things right and left of me. It seems I'm maybe five foot tall or something, but I'm definitely not as tall as I am normally. I'm shorter.

I was seeing brief images of the curved hallway, it wasn’t like watching a movie, it was happening in a series of flashes. I didn’t say this aloud during the session, but I looked down at my hands and I had long fingers. I was skinny and had on a tight fitting uniform. I was just like the beings on each side of me.

Yvonne: Describe everything all around you, what is happening? 

Mike: It feels important.

Yvonne: And what do you feel is important?

Mike: Whatever the reason I am there is. 

Yvonne: Is there communication with them?

Mike: It feels like it. I end up in this room. And there are other beings there and it feels like they are sitting. And it feels like a courtroom or a conference room. And they are all staring at me.

Yvonne: Can you describe the conference room?

Mike: Very plain. It seems like what I'm seeing is a conference room like you would have in a hotel. It’s not much, it’s very plain, there is nothing on the walls. There is a simple table, and it seems like they are sitting at this table on one side… It feels like I'm alone on the other side of the room. And they are all looking at me. There might be one or two on my side of the room, the ones that walked me down the hall. But I'm not sure.

Yvonne: And what do they look like, the ones around the table? 

Mike: It’s foggy. They are all bald. And they are not moving, they are sitting very still. It’s like a trial, or like a meeting, and they are all looking at me. I don’t think I’m at a podium, but it feels like that kind of thing. It feels like a trial.

(long pause)

Yvonne: Can you describe what is being communicated?

Mike: That now is the time, and I agreed to this, and I'm here because now is the time.

(long pause) 

I'm confused, I can’t remember all the… (gasp) I don't remember… I don’t know… I don’t know why they are saying it…. 

Yvonne: You will be able to remember all of the details. Very easily. Do they describe [what it means when they say] now is the time? 

Mike: Why does it have to be SO hard. They didn’t tell me it would be this hard being here. I mean it was… they… I… I'm like fighting… I didn’t know it would be so hard to be here. 

Yvonne: And where is here?

Mike: My life on earth. I didn’t… (gasp) 

Yvonne: Do you ask them why? 

Mike: I just say I agreed to it. But they don’t understand what it is to be here and how… (gasp) and how… They don't know and I do and they don't know how hard it is and I do and they can’t… They’re blank about it. They’re… (my voice is very emotional)

Yvonne: What else do they communicate to you.

Mike: It’s time. IT’S NOW!  Like I .. Like..  Everything leading up to this is… IT’S NOW! 

Yvonne: And what is going to happen with now?

Mike: Everything is going to change. 

Yvonne: Do they describe how? 

Mike: Like the job I came here to do is starting. (I begin sobbing and Yvonne tries to console me)

I had no idea it would… it’s so hard and they don’t understand… (sobbing hard—barely audible)

(11:11:11 time count)

Being here is so hard! Everything about it is so hard. I spent so many years being SO sad — in this PAIN! It’s like pain to just be here… and they don’t… they just said I… (sobbing)

Yvonne: Mike, do they tell you what you are supposed to do now? That the time is now?

Mike: I come forward [with what’s happened to me]. I talk about it. And I'm supposed to play some role and it's SO fucked up! It’s like they can’t… Like they don’t even know what it’s like to feel sad. They don’t know what it’s like to feel… I don’t know… (sobbing) 

Yvonne: Do you try to explain that to them?

Mike: I try and they don’t… they don’t… They just say I agreed to it. They said, “You knew, you agreed.” (sobbing)

Yvonne: So they want you to talk about your experiences?

Mike: (emphatic) They want me to play some role, like I have some duty. They just say it, and they don't know what that [means], how fucked up it is, what they are asking. They don’t know what they are asking. They don’t understand what it means to be here and have to deal with sadness and fears and… and … and loneliness. They just don't understand that part. 

They just said it’s time and that I agreed to it and they’re very… it’s not like stern… it’s like they’re matter of fact, it’s like some business deal. (stammering) They’re just… now… you’re… it’s you… now is like… (clearly) IT’S NOW. And all the… You agreed to this and now it’s happening. Right now! 

At this point the sobbing abruptly stops. It lasted only three minutes, but it seemed much longer. It feels like I deflate, I palpably change from extremely tense and very emotional, to perfectly calm. It felt like I sunk down into the couch and stopped breathing. I was silent for a long time.

Yvonne: Do they describe what they want you to do in detail?

Mike: (very calm voice) I think I'm back in the sleeping bag. 

I don’t think they describe it, if they do I don't (long pause) I don’t think I can say it, I don’t think I'm allowed to say it. 

Yvonne: You can say it Mike. You can verbalize it.

Mike: No, I don’t think I can say what they want. I don’t know what they want me to do. I KNOW that I wrote a book after, I KNOW that I started talking after, I KNOW I did all that stuff, but I think there’s MORE. I think there is more and I don’t know what it is. 

Yvonne: They are just telling you the time is now?

Mike: The impression I have is that I agreed to this in some other realm. I ended up here on earth and I had this life… and I’ve done a lot of things… and that’s over. And there is this new thing that started right then. And they were stern about it, and they were clear about it… and I didn’t have a choice. I didn’t have a choice. I didn’t have any choice, I was told there was a contract, there was an agreement, or like a plan, or like a mission. Whatever I had agreed to—it was NOW. 

I don’t see their faces, and the room is just some stupid room in a hotel and I don’t… 

Yvonne: Is the room full?

Mike: It doesn’t seem very full. No, it seems there are two beings, one on each side of me, maybe. I'm definitely standing alone. It feels like they are at a table all sitting and I can’t see their faces and I don’t know if I'm taking to one or all of them at the same time. It feels like I'm talking to all of them at the same time. It feels like the message is YOUR MISSION STARTS NOW.

At this point Yvonne changes the subject. Before the session started I’d asked her to bring up the subject of owls. I requested that she ask me, “What’s the meaning of the owls?”

Yvonne: As they are communicating this to you, do you feel your connection with owls is part of what you are supposed to do, part of your mission?

(long pause)

Mike: I don't think we talk about owls.

Yvonne: What sense do you get about your connection with owls?

Mike: I get that the owl isn’t important. The owl is like a symbol, or like a sign on a door. It’s just a sign on a door and what’s behind the door is what’s important…

For a few moments I mumble and stammer. I’m struggling to say something. I speak in fragments about being and artist, and that I understand something—then I begin speaking very clearly.

Mike: I understand how people take in a story, and how they need a symbol or a sign on the door. But the owl is meaningless to what is on the other side of the door. It’s just the doorway that’s important. 

The owl is the right symbol for the door. We are on this side, and EVERYTHING else is on that side of the door. There is is a LOT more! We are in this little tight hallway here, and on the other side of the door is this vastness! 

Yvonne: Are they communicating anything else to you?

Mike: No, that’s the only message I feel like I got. It’s time now and I agreed to it and it doesn’t feel like I’ve got any say in it.

And it feels like I'm fucking pissed and angry that they would… that I would have to BE here, and they don’t understand.  

(1:23:45 time count) 

Yvonne: Do they tell you, or do they communicate to you, that eventually it will become clear to you what else you need to do? 

Mike: I think it is implied somehow, but they don't say it. I feel like I never fit in here. I guess I did in a way, but I was battling so much emotional sadness.

Yvonne: Your time on earth? 

Mike: Yeah, it’s not clean and easy, it’s all mixed up. Like I'm part of here and part of there, and it’s not simple. The emotions are all messed up, and tangled up. I don’t think there is anything else I can get from this. It feels like there is some lock and they hold the key, and they’re not opening that lock for me. It feels like it’ll happen sometime, maybe, before I die. It feels like I am waiting for an envelope to be delivered, and I’ll open the envelope and find the instructions. And I don’t have that envelope yet, it feels like they are holding that envelope. 

Yvonne: Are you ready to leave this now.

Mike: Yes, I gotta get out of here. It’s too much.

At this point Yvonne began a formal process of ending the session. 

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Hypnosis is very strange, and I’m cautious to give this new information too much meaning. There is no way of knowing if these brief flashes actually happened, so I’m not allowing myself to see the story that emerged as literal. I’ve read plenty of similar accounts, so my subconscious could have been front-loaded in a way where I just made it all up. Yet for me the story has an emotional power, there is no denying that. 

I feel much better taking it in as a sort of metaphor, like if I asked a wise man for advice and he told me a parable. On that level, the story is helpful, and perhaps even beautiful.

There have been three hypnosis sessions that all point to the same thing—the past life regression with Lorraine in 2014, Mary in 2017, and Yvonne in 2018. Each tells a similar story, and each made me sob uncontrollably.

Taking this literally, I have a dual identity—partly as an alien, and partly as myself, as Mike. I’ve made a soul agreement to incarnate on earth and play an important role, yet I don’t know what it is, and haven’t got a choice in the matter. 

You can understand how this can seem overwhelming.

Part of me wants to have a big belly laugh and dismiss it all. But if you look at how that event plays into the timeline of my life, something fits so cleanly. I underwent a profound change within 48 hours of that night in Utah, and it seems to match the message I received under hypnosis. I’ve been calling this my confirmation event, and I’m not exaggerating—my old life ended, and a new life began.

This new life has involved compulsively writing about UFOs and owls, to the exclusion of nearly everything else. The beings in the conference room told me I was here to play a role, and I have to wonder if that’s exactly what I’ve been doing, and doing now.

I wrote this on page 23 of The Messengers: “…I can’t help but wonder if I was somehow chosen to archive these reports and turn them into a book. Yes, that sounds presumptuous, but that’s how it feels.”

The first owl book began in the aftermath of that night in Utah, and I was saying something that parallels the message from the hypnosis sessions.

I’ve had powerful experiences peering into my subconscious, yet I have no way of knowing what really happened. The story was remarkable, but I don’t want to be seduced by its power. I mean, there obviously wasn’t a tacky conference room with ugly carpet on a flying saucer, yet I was confronted with a vision of something. Identical stories emerged in different hypnosis sessions, but were they real or was it confabulated from all the UFO books I’ve read?

Can hypnosis lead to false memories? The answer is undoubtedly yes, but are all the memories false? I’m not an expert, but I have to think that some aspects must be accurate, or partially so. The bigger question for me is were my memories false or accurate, or a blurring of something in between? 

I’m struggling to hold two ideas in my mind at the same time—the story that unfolded on Yvonne’s couch was both real, and unreal.

This is my conflict and I may never find an answer, but I still need to proceed forward.

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